Out of touch? PLL

[Voidmage]

Given that the playerbase cried because In the cold and the Wuk Lamat fight was too difficult, there is a reason casual content is braindead.

I would love to have more difficult casual content, but a vast majority of the playerbase still can't even play their job at level 100. Tanks not mitigating, healers still spamming cure 1 and dps who can't even press their basic combo 1-2-3.

Lets be real, there is unreal and extreme trials but that would require some effort on their part. Most people in this thread want more braindead casual content, not difficulty.

What an assumption.
You conflate casual players with those who don’t want to play at all.
It isn’t the casual playerbase that doesn’t know how to play their job.
The casual players are those who just don’t mind to not optimize their class.

The people in this thread want more lasting content they don’t have to use PF and can just jump into like field content.

You just try to present casual players as bad players in your arguments.

[Havenchild]

What an assumption.
You conflate casual players with those who don’t want to play at all.
It isn’t the casual playerbase that doesn’t know how to play their job.
The casual players are those who just don’t mind to not optimize their class.

The people in this thread want more lasting content they don’t have to use PF and can just jump into like field content.

You just try to present casual players as bad players in your arguments.

Perhaps you are missing the main point being portrayed here. While it's not persay a casual vs hardcore or whatever debate, understanding how the playerbase moves enlightens to the general response of the devs.

People did complain about those quests. If YoshiP and co think these are enough of a bottleneck they nerf the contents but that also informs something like there next decision, say harder Expert dungeons (or content around that level). They are more likely to be adverse to releasing content that is more difficult (but not hardcore like savage level) if the general playerbase is "struggling"

This includes things like exploratory zones which were hugely unpopular in SB and SHB and only when they were finally not present in EW did people suddenly miss them. These forums for one cooked both of those exploratory zones to oblivion.

Even YoshiP voiced his surprise to how many people actually liked the content during EW, likely because the amount of people that did it was lower than expected regardless and suddenly several people were complaining about not having it.

[Banriikku]

Out of touch PLL ? Yes because the whole thing is marketing. It is not even cummincation. It is simply a tool to hype and sell. That is ok but this is all we get after DT problems, DDOS and many complaints on all fronts ?

[Daralii]

Out of touch PLL ? Yes because the whole thing is marketing. It is not even cummincation. It is simply a tool to hype and sell. That is ok but this is all we get after DT problems, DDOS and many complaints on all fronts ?

They probably have everything up to 7.3 nearly finalized at this point with how their development pipeline works, so they can't easily pivot even if they wanted to, and apologetics(and therefore admitting the product has issues) is bad for a marketing presentation at a big industry event unless it's to set up that what they're trying to sell is fixing those issues. I expect nothing from them, especially after Yoshida said that DT's reception is what he expected.

[AureliusIX]

Out of touch PLL ? Yes because the whole thing is marketing. It is not even cummincation. It is simply a tool to hype and sell. That is ok but this is all we get after DT problems, DDOS and many complaints on all fronts ?

I think back to the origins of the PLL and the philosophy behind it was for open communication between the dev team and players, Yoshida himself mentions this on the NoClip documentary of FF14 the fall and rise. You can go back to old archive even on this forum of the devs keeping us informed of what's going on but now I think they're so detached from the player base for whatever reason. This latest PLL just felt, as others have said marketing but who to? It didn't reassure people who were begging for casual content, I don't want to go over it again too much as the topic has been talked over to death and back, but they should have said a small thing about the story even if it was "we heard your feedback and we're listening" I think we all understand they're not going to do a deep dive into what went wrong with Dawntrail's MSQ and characters people aren't that naïve we're looking for just a hint of reassurance the devs understand people are frustrated with the stale content, the same repetitive beats over and over that they're aware of the reaction to the MSQ.
Let's not beat around the bush here, the MSQ is a major part of Final Fantasy 14 it's the foundation for the entire game the glue that connects everything together even if you're a pure raider or glam player and skip the entire MSQ there are many, many times more people who play for just the MSQ and those people you can poach to try and convince to play other content if the MSQ is done well. It's what happened in Shadowbringers and Endwalker, people loved the stories and stuck around to do Eureka, Bojza going back over old raids or watching people on streams playthrough the MSQ.
All of this is to say, a simple acknowledgement would have gone a long way in a lot of people's minds for reassurance.

[Voidmage]

Perhaps you are missing the main point being portrayed here. While it\\'s not persay a casual vs hardcore or whatever debate, understanding how the playerbase moves enlightens to the general response of the devs.

People did complain about those quests. If YoshiP and co think these are enough of a bottleneck they nerf the contents but that also informs something like there next decision, say harder Expert dungeons (or content around that level). They are more likely to be adverse to releasing content that is more difficult (but not hardcore like savage level) if the general playerbase is "struggling"

This includes things like exploratory zones which were hugely unpopular in SB and SHB and only when they were finally not present in EW did people suddenly miss them. These forums for one cooked both of those exploratory zones to oblivion.

Even YoshiP voiced his surprise to how many people actually liked the content during EW, likely because the amount of people that did it was lower than expected regardless and suddenly several people were complaining about not having it.

No.
It’s the devs responsibility to find middle ground. If they overadjust things on little feedback like the viper changes that’s on them.
Yes people did complain about those quests and got at least the same amount of pushback in the comments but instead of saying “hey we just have different difficulty settings so choose what best suits you but we also have players who liked those quests” the devs went overboard and gave us quests you can’t even fail anymore.
Like I said those are not usual casual players who complained but those who don’t even want to play. That’s like saying everyone who does ultimate is a sweating nolifer.

EW and Bozja also.
Yoshida has no right to act surprised that people miss field content when Eureka was as active as always after EW, same as Bozja.
That content was never unpopular there were just large amounts of people that disliked PARTS of them and there were large amounts of people playing it but surprise at one point those people are actually finished with it or archived what they wanted from it.
But instead of looking at the actual feedback of those who engaged with the content they again only saw the loud complaints, went overboard, overshot the finish line and would have just scrapped the content altogether if the playerbase that ACTUALLY liked that content didn’t say anything and apparently that playerbase is large enough.
Same with the relics weapon. Instead of making something for those who hate grinds they just took away from the people who liked working on their weapon.

The problem isn’t what the players give as feedback.
The problem is the devs cherry-picking what they want from that feedback to develop with the least amount of work.
That’s why we get changes where everyone in all languages and over all sites asks where the hell they even get that feedback from.

Edit:
And again, don’t throw casuals and those who don’t even want to play together.
One does content in their own pace over a long time and is happy with not completing everything.
The others are standing around and are annoyed if they have to click to queue for a dungeon to get tomestones.

[Havenchild]

snip.

The short term memory of these forums never seizes to amaze me. Exploratory zones were largely unpopular content for their releases, specifically the biggest complaint being too grindy and just fate hopping with no real mechanics. Bozja got alil more praise for critical engagements but the overall sentiment was the exact same. You can literally search history of the forums during SB and SHB and see nothing but complaints about the content. Im not sure what's the point of even trying to say otherwise when the history proves itself. EW was specifically the turn around of sentiment for exploration zones cause there was nothing else in between patches. YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause? Lol

These forums try to convince themselves of anything nowadays.

As for feedback, devs "cherrypicking" anything is opinion. If players overall are complaining about something, that doesn't look different from players asking for "slight" balance changes.

This is again delusion the forums teach themselves despite having classic examples of how Yoshi and co respond.

Complaints have always incited nerfs into the ground. Blame the people who complain about everything as the cause of the issues, or blame the casuals who create the environment for these MSQ/casual content nerfs to occur or blame the hardcores with their inflated egos (and DPS mentality) for the raid scene losing out on different jobs which in kind create job shortages, which in turn cause nerfs to those roles.

You and several on these forums can't handle the fact that your unwarranted complaints have in turn caused some of the worst balance changes ever. Factor in that there will always be people ready to complain about any change made, and you have a situation where Yoshi and devs can do no right.

[Dante131]

The short term memory of these forums never seizes to amaze me. Exploratory zones were largely unpopular content for their releases, specifically the biggest complaint being too grindy and just fate hopping with no real mechanics. Bozja got alil more praise for critical engagements but the overall sentiment was the exact same. You can literally search history of the forums during SB and SHB and see nothing but complaints about the content. Im not sure what's the point of even trying to say otherwise when the history proves itself. EW was specifically the turn around of sentiment for exploration zones cause there was nothing else in between patches. YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause? Lol

These forums try to convince themselves of anything nowadays.

As for feedback, devs "cherrypicking" anything is opinion. If players overall are complaining about something, that doesn't look different from players asking for "slight" balance changes.

This is again delusion the forums teach themselves despite having classic examples of how Yoshi and co respond.

Complaints have always incited nerfs into the ground. Blame the people who complain about everything as the cause of the issues, or blame the casuals who create the environment for these MSQ/casual content nerfs to occur or blame the hardcores with their inflated egos (and DPS mentality) for the raid scene losing out on different jobs which in kind create job shortages, which in turn cause nerfs to those roles.

You and several on these forums can't handle the fact that your unwarranted complaints have in turn caused some of the worst balance changes ever. Factor in that there will always be people ready to complain about any change made, and you have a situation where Yoshi and devs can do no right.

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

[Havenchild]

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho

snip.

If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

[Dante131]

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho



If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

what kind of gotcha is this when i litterally tell you to correct me lol. you really have too chill more.