AoE Telegraphs

[LibitIncarne]

A player on youtube reportedly "found" videos of Arcadion Savage bosses with visible ingame-style telegraphs for attacks that don't actually have them.
Video here.

How long will it take for this thread to get deleted by the jannies?

[ForteNightshade]

This is hardly new. There's a plugin that's fairly easy to find that does exactly this. Unfortunately, nothing can really be done about it without getting into the whole break third party discussion. Which isn't going to happen.

Edit: It's also funny the GNB clearly has a zoom hack yet still messed up the stinger mechanic. No idea how that angle would ever help either.

[Dorito_Burrito]

I can guarantee you none of those videos will save my uncoordinated self from beefing it during M4S prog.

[LibitIncarne]

This is hardly new. There's a plugin that's fairly easy to find that does exactly this.

It looking like ingame telegraphs is new.

[Jeeqbit]

I've heard of this once before. SE wasn't happy with it, and it's obviously going too far (if anything, I'd rather telegraphs be removed in normal content to make it more fun).

At the end of the day, anyone doing this obviously doesn't play games for the challenge and those who want challenge wouldn't be doing stuff like this.

[AlienDiplomat]

It seems SE encounter design may be running out of ideas.

Since launch telegraphs (when they DO exist) have always been, it is safe to move into the orange marked area after it goes away, even if the attack animation hasn't gone off yet. It is built into the fundamental playstyle and design of the game, for over a decade.

Recently with DT, instead of innovating combat mechanics as in the past, they have taken to intentionally designing mechanics that defy this decade+ understanding and making attack telegraphs show up, go away, THEN go off and hurt you for standing where they were.

This is just another example of the laziness of Dawntrail in general, from the writing to the game design itself. Boss battles have become more like playing a memory game like Simon than an actual intuitive and reactive MMO.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

It seems SE encounter design may be running out of ideas.

Since launch telegraphs (when they DO exist) have always been, it is safe to move into the orange marked area after it goes away, even if the attack animation hasn't gone off yet. It is built into the fundamental playstyle and design of the game, for over a decade.

Recently with DT, instead of innovating combat mechanics as in the past, they have taken to intentionally designing mechanics that defy this decade+ understanding and making attack telegraphs show up, go away, THEN go off and hurt you for standing where they were.

This is just another example of the laziness of Dawntrail in general, from the writing to the game design itself. Boss battles have become more like playing a memory game like Simon than an actual intuitive and reactive MMO.

Wait... So they changed things up slightly for some mechanics... and you call it lazy? lmao.


Also, haven't people been complaining about the way the telegraphs work for ages? Just adjust, makes you a better player.

[Jeeqbit]

It seems SE encounter design may be running out of ideas.

I don't think it's that. They explained what it is. They said they had got backlash for certain mechanics that had pushed them to just stick with "safe" mechanics that don't get criticism. But they are allowing themselves to do different ideas again, for example at the expense of uptime, because going for 100% uptime led to the giant hitboxes that went too far and highlighted the issue with 100% uptime for all to see - where it affects creativity too much.

Recently with DT, instead of innovating combat mechanics as in the past, they have taken to intentionally designing mechanics that defy this decade+ understanding and making attack telegraphs show up, go away, THEN go off and hurt you for standing where they were.

Firstly, this has happened before, just very rarely. Most likely the cast you see is a "fake cast" and then the one which hits is a "swiftcast" that you only see in the battle log.

Secondly, although newer bosses like Valigarmanda no longer have a cast bar for certain attacks due to the new castbar in the middle of the screen, if you only enable certain settings in the battle log, you can see when it begins casting despite the lack of a cast bar. I used this as a workaround so I don't have to look at the middle of the screen...

Thirdly, there is a relatively recent type of attack you may have seen on hunt mobs such as Ruminator, Queen Hawk and Sally the Sweeper. It's a purple "foreshadow" marker. That means it's telling you where the safe spots will be in the FUTURE. A lot of people don't understand this, so after the AoE disappears on Queen Hawk, they run into it, not understanding that it becomes unsafe after it disappears. I don't think this is a lazy idea, but rather a fresh idea, that is foreshadowing the future and making us use our memory of where the safe spots will be.

Boss battles have become more like playing a memory game

It's always been a memory game. That is how the game works and has since the start. You don't have to like it, but that's the game and you chose to play it.

Now might they suddenly make it all random and unscripted due to posts like yours? Maybe, but I think it will always be within the constraints of their script system tbh.

A lot of people like the script because it means they can get the fight "on farm" and "know the fight" and then optimize/get better at it.

[AlienDiplomat]

It's always been a memory game. That is how the game works and has since the start.

There is a big difference though between remembering how mechanics work and mechanics that specifically work by making you memorize short-term patterns, like the game Simon where you remember sequences of color flashes and have to press the buttons in that sequence.

It seems DT relies more on the later. It doesn't help that these are typically the most unforgiving attacks where under geared players in leveling dungeons can be 1-shot by them. I realize most times you can learn tricks to deal with them. Like on Golbez when he does I think it is called Void Stardust (the two spiral AOE in succession) you can stand just outside the first circles then run into their area once they go off to dodge the second.

Part of the problem adding these types of unforgiving non-standard telegraphs into leveling dungeon content this late in the game however is the sheer volume of dungeons now in the random queue.

I feel when they take time to include visual components to mechanics like volcanic blasts from the wall or crumbling dust around pillars that will fall, these are easier to spot and anticipate than quirky "remember where both sets of AOE were then position yourself so that once they're gone you can dodge the attacks that come after which can 1-shot you."

I don't have groups disband that often which is fortunate. In other games after the first couple wipes you are usually looking at having to re-queue which as a dps can mean another 20+ minute wait.

It is what it is I guess; I just prefer mechanics that are either more visually recognizable or just more intuitive in general. But these most likely are much more expensive and time consuming to develop with all the additional animations and effects that need to be built for them.

[Valence]

The game used to be more than just memory games, would be more exact.

Also funny they still manage to die from alarm pheromones on that video.


Edit: I find it a little depressing that most raiding mechanics especially those days are just made challenging by the removal of visual feedbacks and helpers more than anything else tbh. Comforts me even more into dropping raiding altogether.