Square Enix Appears To Have Ended Working Relationship With Sweet Baby Inc.

[Gaddes]

Do people just not know what consultation companies do now, or what?

yeah it's really annoying how it still keeps coming up. All they are used for is consulting; ultimately the studio itself decides on what it wants to do... and yet you get wackos coming out of the woodwork acting like SBI had a gun to devs' heads to do their bidding. If the company itself wants to act on that consulting, that's their business, but that's all the service is. And it doesn't seem to matter how many devs insist all it is is a consulting service because this BS just gets perpetuated among people that just stamp "woke" on any game they don't like.

[LucienFaust]

Too what Gaddes said.

These are the facts but people are stupid and are quick to pull out the pitch forks.

[lolnotacat]

Do people just not know what consultation companies do now, or what?

I do. I work in the games industry. Fortunately my company hasn't hired any of these types companies yet, so I haven't had to deal with any of them. Though I have worked with other consultants on stuff like localization, monetization, and advertising. But I've had coworkers and friends from Blizzard, EA, and a few of the other big development companies who have worked with outside consulting firms that are focused on the narratives put forward. Granted, this is all second-hand and never from the people who actually hired the consultants and signed their checks, but they did work with them. From what I've heard from said coworkers, it's not great as they do regularly push a particular narrative, but the reality is that what the "anti-woke" people are saying is only half true.

It's only half true because SBI and their contemporaries don't directly dictate what's put in the game, they don't have that power. Despite that, they can still influence the content of a game. By that I mean, the developers think that consultants have their finger on the pulse of the industry, the demographic, etc... why would they be hired if they didn't think that? Also there's also some tacit blackmailing which takes place. "Do what we recommend or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a controversy." But even that isn't the majority of what's taking place. The last thing a lot of people don't realize when they complain about SBI or consulting firms like this is that the development teams are usually onboard with what is recommended, which once again, is why the consultancy agencies were hired in the first place.

[Nestama]

I do. I work in the games industry. Fortunately my company hasn't hired any of these types companies yet, so I haven't had to deal with any of them. Though I have worked with other consultants on stuff like localization, monetization, and advertising. But I've had coworkers and friends from Blizzard, EA, and a few of the other big development companies who have worked with outside consulting firms that are focused on the narratives put forward. Granted, this is all second-hand and never from the people who actually hired the consultants and signed their checks, but they did work with them. From what I've heard from said coworkers, it's not great as they do regularly push a particular narrative, but the reality is that what the "anti-woke" people are saying is only half true.

It's only half true because SBI and their contemporaries don't directly dictate what's put in the game, they don't have that power. Despite that, they can still influence the content of a game. By that I mean, the developers think that consultants have their finger on the pulse of the industry, the demographic, etc... why would they be hired if they didn't think that? Also there's also some tacit blackmailing which takes place. "Do what we recommend or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a controversy." But even that isn't the majority of what's taking place. The last thing a lot of people don't realize when they complain about SBI or consulting firms like this is that the development teams are usually onboard with what is recommended, which once again, is why the consultancy agencies were hired in the first place.

Yeah, that part always had me sus about the whole SBI thing. So even if they were hired and offered suggestions about this or that, some suggestions could be rejected, yeah?

Also to answer your question regarding Hit Detection, they were credited in FFVII:Rebirth (fantastic and fun game, highly recommend).

[lolnotacat]

Yeah, that part always had me sus about the whole SBI thing. So even if they were hired and offered suggestions about this or that, some suggestions could be rejected, yeah?

Also to answer your question regarding Hit Detection, they were credited in FFVII:Rebirth (fantastic and fun game, highly recommend).

Well here's the thing. The SBI thing isn't wrong, but it's not right either. These narrative consultants generally aren't great. They're not always be the boogeymen they're made out to be, but they can also be much worse. And yes, many of the suggestions can be (and are) rejected, but from what I've been told, some of the developers will also use the consultants to back up something they wanted to put in the game and use them as a scapegoat or shield. "Oh well 'consulting company' said it was a good idea so we went a long with it. We didn't expect it to not resonate with players." The whole thing is a bit more complicated than youtube channels make it out to be but on the whole, I think it's fair to at least give some pause when their names are dropped in the credits because it sets an expectation; realistic or not. Like if I see Tetsuya Nomura in the credits as a character designer, I expect lots of belts and zippers.

Also, thanks for letting me know where the Hit Detection was coming from. I kinda felt like it was just something that was thrown out there, but nobody ever said where it came from before.

TBH, I'm not interested in the FFVII remake. I enjoyed VII for what it was back on my PS1. Combined with enjoying the story and missing turn based games, I feel like it might hurt that nostalgia I have. Plus I can admit I might be aged out of the target demo lol.

[TemporalFruitsAndVeggies]

I do. I work in the games industry. Fortunately my company hasn't hired any of these types companies yet, so I haven't had to deal with any of them. Though I have worked with other consultants on stuff like localization, monetization, and advertising. But I've had coworkers and friends from Blizzard, EA, and a few of the other big development companies who have worked with outside consulting firms that are focused on the narratives put forward. Granted, this is all second-hand and never from the people who actually hired the consultants and signed their checks, but they did work with them. From what I've heard from said coworkers, it's not great as they do regularly push a particular narrative, but the reality is that what the "anti-woke" people are saying is only half true.

It's only half true because SBI and their contemporaries don't directly dictate what's put in the game, they don't have that power. Despite that, they can still influence the content of a game. By that I mean, the developers think that consultants have their finger on the pulse of the industry, the demographic, etc... why would they be hired if they didn't think that? Also there's also some tacit blackmailing which takes place. "Do what we recommend or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a controversy." But even that isn't the majority of what's taking place. The last thing a lot of people don't realize when they complain about SBI or consulting firms like this is that the development teams are usually onboard with what is recommended, which once again, is why the consultancy agencies were hired in the first place.

Are you able to give any concrete examples of one of these agencies either positively or negatively affecting the final outcome of an aspect of a game? This is a lot of words but it's all generic vaguery. I can't actually find any sources anywhere of any game developer saying, "yeah we wanted to do this, but Sweet Baby [or whoever] told us we should really do this instead, and it ended up ruining our game/making our game a big success."

[lolnotacat]

Are you able to give any concrete examples of one of these agencies either positively or negatively affecting the final outcome of an aspect of a game? This is a lot of words but it's all generic vaguery. I can't actually find any sources anywhere of any game developer saying, "yeah we wanted to do this, but Sweet Baby [or whoever] told us we should really do this instead, and it ended up ruining our game/making our game a big success."

Unfortunately that's on purpose because the industry is very nepotistic and it's very easy to offend the wrong people (Look at the Del Walker controversy not too long ago) and I'm not gonna risk my (or anyone else's) comfy job. So of course, I'm not annoyed if what I say isn't believed or taken with a large grain of salt.

[TemporalFruitsAndVeggies]

Unfortunately that's on purpose because the industry is very nepotistic and it's very easy to offend the wrong people (Look at the Del Walker controversy not too long ago) and I'm not gonna risk my (or anyone else's) comfy job. So of course, I'm not annoyed if what I say isn't believed or taken with a large grain of salt.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I was questioning your credentials; I was legit just curious.

[Zeastria]

All i know is that i will unsub and blacklist SE, if there isn't a change in the near future.
( i'm so sick of all this ekstremist leftie/lib (political) propaganda, that gets shoved into every damn new game nowadays)

[CKNovel]

Rejoice!

To be fair I don't think CBU3 was affiliated with Sweet Baby Inc in any way shape or form.
What it's going to mean is that we won't see other Forespoken in the future.