Fixing Mch

[Raikai]

Since you added stuff, I will too. :P I actually think it shouldn't, I think it should be dealing Ninja levels of DPS. Brd and Dnc are suppose to be the Support jobs. With returning the damage increasing debuff back to Mch, it would still be more about Buffing the Mch's own damage during it's Wildfire burst phase, than about actually giving everyone else the buff.

But if you think about it... and talking rDPS here, if MCH is buffed so much that goes beyond RDM and on pair with NIN, then it suddenly becomes the optimal candidate for the Phys Ranged slot.

Why anybody would bring dps buffers BRD and DNC when MCH can suprass them even with their outsourced damage accounted for? It would be very imbalanced, unless they add an essential variable to tip the scales (eg. a rez to BRD and DNC).

[Alchemii]

But if you think about it... and talking rDPS here, if MCH is buffed so much that goes beyond RDM and on pair with NIN, then it suddenly becomes the optimal candidate for the Phys Ranged slot.

Why anybody would bring dps buffers BRD and DNC when MCH can suprass them even with their outsourced damage accounted for? It would be very imbalanced, unless they add an essential variable to tip the scales (eg. a rez to BRD and DNC).

That was always the point though. Brd and Dnc are suppose to give enough buffs to the entire party that they make up for their lower dps and make them viable options, while Mch is suppose to be the Greedy Ranged that deals enough damage to make it a viable option. However, as it stands right now, Mch isn't a viable option at all it. Last I checked it wasn't even beating out Brd or Dnc in DPS the category it's suppose to focus on.

[Raikai]

That was always the point though. Brd and Dnc are suppose to give enough buffs to the entire party that they make up for their lower dps and make them viable options, while Mch is suppose to be the Greedy Ranged that deals enough damage to make it a viable option. However, as it stands right now, Mch isn't a viable option at all it. Last I checked it wasn't even beating out Brd or Dnc in DPS the category it's suppose to focus on.

Yeah, but the point is that the overall - after buff contribution - should be competitive between the 3 of them. I know right now is not a good picture because MCH is too low - but then if it's too high we just invert the problem.

DNC and BRD are supposed to have low personal dps by design, but in the end all that matters is that plus the "outsourced contribution" given by the buffs.

If somehow the status quo gets a rebalance by increasing MCH's personal potency to be on par with DNC and BRD's rdps, it would be a never-ending balancing game every patch, to match the gains those jobs get with other people's new ilevels of gear. That's why I think MCH as a selfish dps in this group is an unsustainable choice.

[Alchemii]

Bringing back the bishop turret found in its current pvp form would be a boon for the job and would not only refit it closer to the ranged physical stated purpose of "buffing support job" as described on the XIV job guide page, but also bring unique pulsing barriers to toy with for support tools.

Yea my thought was to bring it back how it use to be. You summon it onto the field where it does auto-attacks, then you trigger a skill that makes it apply a debuff on the enemy with the auto attacks that acts as a support for the rest of the party. Which is what it current does in pvp, plus the added benefit of not having to redeploy if some how a pack of mobs lasts long enough for a second go.

Yeah, but the point is that the overall - after buff contribution - should be competitive between the 3 of them. I know right now is not a good picture because MCH is too low - but then if it's too high we just invert the problem.

DNC and BRD are supposed to have low personal dps by design, but in the end all that matters is that plus the "outsourced contribution" given by the buffs.

If somehow the status quo gets a rebalance by increasing MCH's personal potency to be on par with DNC and BRD's rdps, it would be a never-ending balancing game every patch, to match the gains those jobs get with other people's new ilevels of gear. That's why I think MCH as a selfish dps in this group is an unsustainable choice.

If we drop that then we move back to the current problem we're having with all jobs. That being homogenization. If you remove the core identity of Mch it's just gonna be Brd and Dnc. Sure it'll be easier to balance then, but it's also not going to be any different to play. Bring back it's old random chance mechanics as a buffer, well then it's just Dnc. Don't bring them back then it's just a less flashy Brd. It needs to keep it's identity as the Self Burst DPS, or at least the Self Ranged DPS. Honestly the solution would probably be to bring it back to the Highest Burst DPS while having very low dps between bursts. This would mean the sustained damage buffs of Brd and Dnc would still be viable, and Mch could keep it's identity while holding an actual useful place in the party. But that would involve them needing to make DPS checks important in fights again.

[Valence]

Yeah, but the point is that the overall - after buff contribution - should be competitive between the 3 of them. I know right now is not a good picture because MCH is too low - but then if it's too high we just invert the problem.

DNC and BRD are supposed to have low personal dps by design, but in the end all that matters is that plus the "outsourced contribution" given by the buffs.

If somehow the status quo gets a rebalance by increasing MCH's personal potency to be on par with DNC and BRD's rdps, it would be a never-ending balancing game every patch, to match the gains those jobs get with other people's new ilevels of gear. That's why I think MCH as a selfish dps in this group is an unsustainable choice.

We're repeating the same patterns than in Endwalker so far. Rphys (and SMN/RDM) start 8-10% in total combined damage (personal + raid buffs + raid buff use aka cDPS) behind the melees + BLM/PCT, will probably get buffed a little for the next tiers and the difference may go down to 5ish % as it did in EW later. MCH also starts even lower than BRD/DNC exactly like in EW (I believe at EW launch it was somewhere like 13% behind the melees, absolutely batshit insane), and got buffed with every ranged for x.1, but also had to be rebuffed individually regularly because it just can't follow gear stat increases due to playing into raid buffs less well than actual selfish DPS jobs worth their salt.