Concerns Regarding DPS Balance: Physical Ranged, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Supersnow845]

5% difference between Melee and Ranged is imo fair.



RDM and SMN are hard bound by their resurrection abilities, I'm hoping in 8.0 they yeet them and give them meaningful damage.


BLM is the only caster in my opinion that deserves to sit with melees on damage.




I think the whole caster role needs rethinking.

Pictomancer is overtuned.

BLM is the greedy caster and does less damage than PCT which has a raid wide heal, a raid wide shield AND a raid buff.

SMN/RDM are being shafted because they have resurrection abilities.



Caster Hierachy imo should be BLM > PCT > SMN -> RDM.

A raid buff isn’t utility

[Carighan]

Caster Hierachy imo should be BLM > PCT > SMN -> RDM.

Didn't you also say that Red Mages and Summoners should lose their unique aspects? In that case, kick BLM down the road. They got superior mobility nowadays with their teleporting back and forth + constant instant cast barrages. Should cost them some damage, if everyone else loses their unique aspects. Or take BLM's teleports to people and back to the circle away. /shrug

[Sensui]

Might just be a skill issue.

Top DNC is doing like 28k, top MCH was almost 27k. Top SAM was 30k. Something like that. I've been partied with some good MCH and had to fight for top on occasion..

[Supersnow845]

Top SAM is doing 30k top DNC is like 28k

Yes so why is the golden dancer doing a low blue parse level damage for a melee

[Kazimere]

Because it's a ranged that has zero DC issues. None

[mallleable]

Numbers aside, I'm just sick of feeling like I'm plying a fake role. There is nothing inherently valuable to playing phys ranged jobs. Non phys ranged jobs have gotten so many instant ranged tools that the supposed strength of phys ranged has lost meaning, and there are is so much support utility spread out across the jobs to where it's possible to clear the current highest difficulty fights without healers. Dawntrail is going to be the third expansion in a row where the phys ranged role has had little to no meaning. The supposed focus on fight design this expansion won't fix this either because it's basically admitting 'yeah the role will suck for 99 levels, and 5 expansions worth of gameplay, but just you wait til you get to level 100 end game where it might be kinda good.'

Fix the jobs. Fix the role.

[Sensui]

Just to make people mad and whine on the forums.

[Sensui]

Like, there's no purpose or advantage to any of the DPS jobs, really.... not in a meaningful way at least.. I don't consider "this job does a little more DPS" meaningful.

No additional functionality, no unique thing that only such and such job brings, outside of buffing, or mitigation that is largely the same for every role type (like BRD and DNC or DRG and RPR i guess) they seem kinda similar to me.

Mch has two party wide mits and melee (some lol vpr?) Have 1 party and a self mit. I .... guess that's what they bring? An extra party mitigation.. Silence is never used but neither is stunning.

For every role.. All the "fluff" abilities you have (like bind, weight, blind, stun, etc..) , all raid bosses, he'll even dungeon bosses, are immune to.. so they're kinda pointless.

I do miss the functionality of the various turrets MCH had. At least it was somewhat interesting and uniqiue.

I don't think it's really a phys ranged only issue, but they do have a lot of pointless abilities. The problem were seeing. It's the overall job design "balance" by making them all the same job.

You're basically left to decide which aesthetic you like.

But anyway, we should make all the jobs do the same damage so we can all just be the same and feel good.

[SieyaM]

Like, there's no purpose or advantage to any of the DPS jobs, really.... not in a meaningful way at least.. I don't consider "this job does a little more DPS" meaningful.

No additional functionality, no unique thing that only such and such job brings, outside of buffing, or mitigation that is largely the same for every role type (like BRD and DNC or DRG and RPR i guess) they seem kinda similar to me.

Mch has two party wide mits and melee (some lol vpr?) Have 1 party and a self mit. I .... guess that's what they bring? An extra party mitigation.. Silence is never used but neither is stunning.

For every role.. All the "fluff" abilities you have (like bind, weight, blind, stun, etc..) , all raid bosses, he'll even dungeon bosses, are immune to.. so they're kinda pointless.

I do miss the functionality of the various turrets MCH had. At least it was somewhat interesting and uniqiue.

I don't think it's really a phys ranged only issue, but they do have a lot of pointless abilities. The problem were seeing. It's the overall job design "balance" by making them all the same job.

You're basically left to decide which aesthetic you like.

But anyway, we should make all the jobs do the same damage so we can all just be the same and feel good.

When you start having unique advantages and disadvantages to jobs it becomes more difficult to balance them, and the jobs have all been designed to appease people that cried for absolute balance in the raid scene. This means that no one job can have an ability that gives it any kind of perceived advantage over another job in any scenario. This doesn't mean that jobs are balanced, just that the sole focus of the dev team is to ensure that jobs perform as close as possible to the same level in an arena against a single boss for a short duration. Jobs are not designed for anything else.

[bp_isa_ff]

Red Mage and Summoner are already the two best jobs in the game owing to their raises, and in the case of Red that is the primary job fantasy. Regarding physical ranged, the additional mitigation is significant and the decrease to hitboxes / increase in movement requirements mean the physical ranged fantasy is alive once more. Playing with a talented physical ranged - or even two! - will make for the most comfortable prog you will ever have. The numbers are the only thing these jobs fail at.

However, I must also add that a lot of the players who say "it's not an issue because all jobs can comfortably clear this content" do not realise that insisting it does not make it true: that statement should be something we demand of the developers, not something that we incessantly insist is already the case. The best wake up call to toxic positivity is to allow it to win. If nothing is changed next tier, the same people get to complain about not being able to find physical ranged jobs / that no party will take them as a physical ranged job, and we get to say that we told them so. Additionally, if the developers see that physical ranged jobs are being excluded from parties, they may act with more urgency in buffing the damage output. And if the conversation is brought up again in the future (let's not kid ourselves, it will be...) we can point back to this very moment.