Concerns Regarding DPS Balance: Physical Ranged, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Ayden]

I’ve noticed that physical ranged jobs, as well as Red Mage and Summoner, seem to have significantly lower DPS compared to other jobs in the current raid tier. While many players are saying it’s not an issue because all jobs can comfortably clear this content, I’m concerned about what might happen in future raid tiers where the DPS checks could be much stricter.

Right now, the lower DPS requirement makes the gap between these jobs and others feel negligible, which is why they’re still commonly accepted in Party Finder groups. However, what if the DPS check in the next tier is significantly higher? If the difference in DPS becomes more pronounced, are we going to see players start excluding these jobs from Party Finder simply because they aren’t able to keep up?

I understand that raid composition isn’t everything and that player skill can make a big difference, but I worry that a higher DPS check could make this a bigger issue. Do you think this is something that needs to be addressed by the devs in terms of balance, or am I overthinking it?

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!

[Sensui]

It's never been my experience that jobs are purposefully left out. People that omit certain jobs are dumb.

[Supersnow845]

Leaving a job our just because they do like 2% less damage is dumb but the phys ranged are getting dangerously close to the point where subbing them out for another damage caster or melee is a DPS gain even accounting for the 1% they bring

A shoddily played melee with 70% uptime should not be out DPS’ing a physical ranged

[Sensui]

Might just be a skill issue.

Top DNC is doing like 28k, top MCH was almost 27k. Top SAM was 30k. Something like that. I've been partied with some good MCH and had to fight for top on occasion..

[Supersnow845]

Top SAM is doing 30k top DNC is like 28k

Yes so why is the golden dancer doing a low blue parse level damage for a melee

[mallleable]

Numbers aside, I'm just sick of feeling like I'm plying a fake role. There is nothing inherently valuable to playing phys ranged jobs. Non phys ranged jobs have gotten so many instant ranged tools that the supposed strength of phys ranged has lost meaning, and there are is so much support utility spread out across the jobs to where it's possible to clear the current highest difficulty fights without healers. Dawntrail is going to be the third expansion in a row where the phys ranged role has had little to no meaning. The supposed focus on fight design this expansion won't fix this either because it's basically admitting 'yeah the role will suck for 99 levels, and 5 expansions worth of gameplay, but just you wait til you get to level 100 end game where it might be kinda good.'

Fix the jobs. Fix the role.

[Sensui]

Just to make people mad and whine on the forums.

[Sensui]

Like, there's no purpose or advantage to any of the DPS jobs, really.... not in a meaningful way at least.. I don't consider "this job does a little more DPS" meaningful.

No additional functionality, no unique thing that only such and such job brings, outside of buffing, or mitigation that is largely the same for every role type (like BRD and DNC or DRG and RPR i guess) they seem kinda similar to me.

Mch has two party wide mits and melee (some lol vpr?) Have 1 party and a self mit. I .... guess that's what they bring? An extra party mitigation.. Silence is never used but neither is stunning.

For every role.. All the "fluff" abilities you have (like bind, weight, blind, stun, etc..) , all raid bosses, he'll even dungeon bosses, are immune to.. so they're kinda pointless.

I do miss the functionality of the various turrets MCH had. At least it was somewhat interesting and uniqiue.

I don't think it's really a phys ranged only issue, but they do have a lot of pointless abilities. The problem were seeing. It's the overall job design "balance" by making them all the same job.

You're basically left to decide which aesthetic you like.

But anyway, we should make all the jobs do the same damage so we can all just be the same and feel good.

[bp_isa_ff]

Red Mage and Summoner are already the two best jobs in the game owing to their raises, and in the case of Red that is the primary job fantasy. Regarding physical ranged, the additional mitigation is significant and the decrease to hitboxes / increase in movement requirements mean the physical ranged fantasy is alive once more. Playing with a talented physical ranged - or even two! - will make for the most comfortable prog you will ever have. The numbers are the only thing these jobs fail at.

However, I must also add that a lot of the players who say "it's not an issue because all jobs can comfortably clear this content" do not realise that insisting it does not make it true: that statement should be something we demand of the developers, not something that we incessantly insist is already the case. The best wake up call to toxic positivity is to allow it to win. If nothing is changed next tier, the same people get to complain about not being able to find physical ranged jobs / that no party will take them as a physical ranged job, and we get to say that we told them so. Additionally, if the developers see that physical ranged jobs are being excluded from parties, they may act with more urgency in buffing the damage output. And if the conversation is brought up again in the future (let's not kid ourselves, it will be...) we can point back to this very moment.

[BabyYoda]

I have played RDM few days a go.. as a black mage main RDM doesn't feel like caster.. it is sub caster and sub Phy range.. thus is also the case for summoner.

Being caster is having cast for most of its rotation
Sadly this isn't the case for red mage and Summoner and I believe this is the reason why they are this weak.. developer don't want to anger true casters by this low cast time jobs

I think there should be more cast time for red mage and Summoner with less movement overall

Increase cast time and increase damage