Solution to Astrologian problem

[Lorika]

People liked that you had to play to whatever you drew and attempt to either find a use for it or burn it to hope to make the next draw better. DT AST would have still been stupid in HW because the point of the cards is not enforced variety, it’s playing to RNG

No, RNG was the worse part of the AST and always been.
If you want to gamble, go do your daily mini-Cackpot or play a proc based job.

[Supersnow845]

No, RNG was the worse part of the AST and always been.
If you want to gamble, go do your daily mini-Cackpot or play a proc based job.

AST being about RNG mitigation was its entire design

If you don’t want RNG go play WHM

[IDontPetLalas]

People liked that you had to play to whatever you drew and attempt to either find a use for it or burn it to hope to make the next draw better. DT AST would have still been stupid in HW because the point of the cards is not enforced variety, it’s playing to RNG

This should be stickied somewhere. This basically summarizes why I really don't like DT AST.

[Valence]

People liked that you had to play to whatever you drew and attempt to either find a use for it or burn it to hope to make the next draw better. DT AST would have still been stupid in HW because the point of the cards is not enforced variety, it’s playing to RNG

I want to clarify that I do agree because DT AST has lost all rng and fails not once but twice because

1) what you explained
2) what I explained

[Lorika]

AST being about RNG mitigation was its entire design

If you don’t want RNG go play WHM

No, AST.... And in fact Healer as whole doesn't need RNG.
It's like going to a doctor that will randomly give you a drug.... It's just plain and simple moronic.

Healer must be the most stable job of all, and RNg is not what i call stable...

And you know what it's funny? it that you will tell people to never use Cure I and BeneficI because the RNG on the proc is crap (and the MP cost VS Heal is not good), but RNG on cards if fine....

Seriously, make your mind.

[Supersnow845]

No, AST.... And in fact Healer as whole doesn't need RNG.
It's like going to a doctor that will randomly give you a drug.... It's just plain and simple moronic.

Healer must be the most stable job of all, and RNg is not what i call stable...

And you know what it's funny? it that you will tell people to never use Cure I and BeneficI because the RNG on the proc is crap (and the MP cost VS Heal is not good), but RNG on cards if fine....

Seriously, make your mind.

Yes because AST before ShB was designed around not needing the cards, they were added bonuses you played around and tried to maximise your output from a limited set of solutions. It’s like going to the doctor and having them try to maximise how much you enjoy the lolly they give after your checkup, it fundamentally doesn’t matter to the core check up but it’s fun to try to maximise enjoyment

You drew spire? Hmmm does anyone need TP? Nope nobody has made a mistake recently, TP is healthy. Hmm if I burn spire what benefit does royal road offer me? Double duration. Hmm there is no card that would really benefit from double duration given the current state of everyone’s stats so I guess I’ll redraw it.

That was how you played with RNG on old AST without actually locking you out of core functions, you never “relied” on any card to help you survive what would otherwise kill you, you maximised your output on what was ultimately a set of options that didn’t truly “matter”, it’s why when they made all the cards damage in ShB it didn’t affect AST’s healing output, because you didn’t need the cards to help your healing, the point was to maximise a set of fundamentally not needed options

[AmiableApkallu]

And you know what it's funny? it that you will tell people to never use Cure I and BeneficI because the RNG on the proc is crap (and the MP cost VS Heal is not good), but RNG on cards if fine....

Seriously, make your mind.

I have made my mind. The RNG on Cure I/Benefic I has nothing to do with the class's/job's identity.

On the other hand, RNG with AST's card's is everything, is it not? "We may accept this fate. Or defy it. But we cannot deny it."

[Azurarok]

If the cards were the main part of it's healing kit then the RNG'd be a problem but that sure wasn't the case and still isn't. Folks who didn't like it were basically asking for it to be a different job.

I feel I would've liked it quite a bit more had it not replaced AST. DT's cards feel more like you're mixing a set of potions, not drawing a card to do a reading and figuring out what to do with it.

[Carighan]

issues with the job:

1. card system DT change kills it by giving non DPS buffs
2. buffs doesn't feel impactful
3. busyness of the job compared to jobs in the same role

Non-DPS-aimed cards in the card system
I've got to wonder why you feel this is an issue in the first place that you have options to give someone extra damage reduction, a fairly strong HoT or a fairly potent shield (if nothing else use it on yourself for extra protection against the next Aoe?). Plus you can always not use them, compared to the previous system you're not beholding on spamming out your cards to fill Astrodyne after all.
But, assuming that you mind it on a principal level that you got cards of different mental value, wouldn't the correct solution be to remove the DPS cards entirely, and make all cards option, which in turn frees up design space for making their effects much stronger and supplanting other existing spells and oGCDs to make us more focused on cards? After all, the reason our card system always wobbles so much in each design pass is because there are DPS options in it, which automatically become the only ones that matter.
Feels to me like the issue is having DPS cards, not having non-DPS cards?

Weak buffs
Well, to a degree I agree. But it's more a problem with job design overall in this game, not Astro in particular. We have no Expedient, sure, but then again neither do White Mage and Sage. We have crazy stuff like Macrocosmos which if casted at the right moment gives a mobile GCD + an automatical heal of a major mechanic 15 seconds later (since you want to cast it so it goes off on its own). We also bring stronger damage buffs to the party than any other healer in our cards and Divination.

Could they be less, but stronger? For example there's no need to have 4 damage reduction buffs total instead of a single very strong or short-CD one? Sure. But again, that's an issue that virtually every job in this game has that they needlessly have 3-6 individually weak or long-CD buttons doing just about the same thing just to fill up hotbars and make the job feel way more complex than it actually is. Solve it at a game-level, not an Astro-level, IMO.

Busyness
Eeeeh... with this one I'm not sure what to say about it. I mean yes, but also, that's why you play Astro, yes. That's the one unique thing it has actually going for it, eshewing the veneer with the cards and all for a second. It's a busy healing job, with loads of individual bits and pieces, compared to the (comparatively) straightforward but powerful hitting White Mage. Astro has all the extra utility bits bolted on you keep firing off, in return you got all these utility effects to fire off in the first place.

[Carighan]

No, RNG was the worse part of the AST and always been.
If you want to gamble, go do your daily mini-Cackpot or play a proc based job.

A proc-based healer would be terrific in a game that supports it, but there's so many issues with that in the context of current FFXIV job design, yeah:
* Old Astro wasn't a proc-based healer either, it took the worst parts of randomness without any of the benefits.
* Fight-design has evolved into a tighter and tighter and hence stricter and stricter ballet dance over the years, which made homogenization of jobs the simplest way to design things. See even Dancer getting extra non-random GCDs to space the randomness out further, therefor slightly reducing it.
* Speaking of which, of all the jobs in the game, one is based on procs. I don't really think we're at a level where calling for random Astro cards in the old (bad) way before even having more proc-based jobs at all would be a sensible ask.
* This would necessitate a massive rethink of how group content works in FFXIV, which would be good, but should first be used to actually demand healing in the first place. Which is something people posting here are quick to forget: You're currently not playing healers, but green DPS. Any oGCD spam you're asking for still exists against the backdrop of spamming the same damage spell all day long. Ask for actually having to use your healing tools first, which would mean you're busy and randomized cards would really be the least of your worries. Automatically.