The FF14 community does not understand SE's design choice

[AnimalsALot]

Lo and behold this interview with Yoshi P.

"With regards to the changes for Viper, we had adjusted right until the last minute and we did have in mind the possibility that some players might provide feedback that it was too busy to play," Yoshida begins. "We did release the job in that state, and then we found a lot of players say it was very busy to play to the extent that they were not able to see mechanics.

Correct. There were several posts on the official forums that mentioned just how busy Viper is.





A lot of players also said that the changes are good:

Yoshida explains that while the team eventually went through with the adjustments, this was "unrelated to the community feedback," although he thinks there "probably there was some misunderstanding on the community's part" in regards to this. He adds: "I do remember on social media, especially in North America and in Europe, some people were saying, 'Hey, Yoshida, you're listening too much to community feedback,' but that was only a little bit so really you don't need to worry."

This is a very positive direction for Square Enix to go. Square Enix is avoiding the classic pitfall of MMO developers of listening to community feedback. The Viper changes is borne out of their vision for the game and not silly ideas like "feedback".

GamesRadar's journalist also writes a completely factual fact in a factual piece reporting on this news, that:

Clearly, the team had the community's best interests in mind, even if there was no way everyone would be pleased.

This is not opinion, but fact. Square Enix has the community's best interests in mind and knows better than us. Unfortunately, the FF14 community does not understand SE's design choice. But not to worry, Square Enix does not need to listen to feedback and are making changes for our own good, despite our protests.

[BaconBits]

[NegativeS]

Please understand. Small indie company. Cannot afford enough CR cronies to comb the forums. The only people who get to provide feedback are the streamers that the devs watch on their lunch break.

[Cyrtip]

Their design choice in regards to jobs is plain stupid, in a lot of scenarios it feels like they aren't "updating" the jobs for the playerbase that currently likes them, but instead for another group, ease of balancing, or to market that "every job got shiny new changes with 7.0".

Dragoon is a laughable example of #3, the job hits the same number of actions during burst, some were just replaced with "new" abilities. Now rather than press Spineshatter Dive twice, I press both Stardiver and Dragonfire Dive a second time. Instead of pressing Life of the Dragon in my burst, I press a third Nastrond instead. Wooow.

If people are trying out a job that is new to them, and they don't like it, tough. You're not the target audience for this one, and there's 20 more included in your sub. Developers shouldn't see Jim not like Job and think "Lets rework this for a wider/different audience," that's how we get 7.0 MNK and BLM. Those two used to be considered the jobs with the most depth in the entire game, jobs with priorities instead of rigid rotations. Now MNK is just bland builder/spender melee #6, and BLM's flare star forces rigidity in a job that for as long as I can remember was notable because of its flexibility.

In a closer-to-perfect world than this, the people who liked those two could likewise take my advice to "try another one of the 20 other jobs," but literally all of them have been moving in the same design direction since Shadowbringers. Streamlined, simplified, and sleep inducing.

Also,

Square Enix is avoiding the classic pitfall of MMO developers of listening to community feedback

is a wild statement. How is listening to feedback a "pitfall?"

Taking their own words out of their mouths, "The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update" is a pitfall. 'We've heard your feedback, wait until 7.2 8.0 for job gameplay to be in a passable state' sounds a lot like that. Could just be me.


And even then, from the same interview you linked,

We did release the job [VPR] in that state, and then we found a lot of players say it was very busy to play

The response to that was a lot of feedback from players who had already reached the level cap and were already used to playing with the job, and they were happy with the way it played

They're not ignoring feedback, they're cherry-picking it.

Finally, if the community at large is failing to understand Square's design choices, it's because they're poorly explained. Not our fault, theirs.
From the same article yet again:

We announced that we were considering making adjustments to the job

Square didn't announce they were considering changes. They announced there would be changes, and are now claiming something completely different happened. Not the greatest communication.

[Supersnow845]

You also can’t ignore the fact that there is a strangely large amount of people in 14 who will white knight anything. You see it on the forums anytime a topic comes up that is even mildly discussed or discussed across multiple threads

Inevitably someone will come in and make a thread like “I want to thank the devs for being so good to us” or “I like x change because the devs know what they are doing” and oftentimes haha no idea about the actual ins and outs of the topic and it just reads like they are defending square

That “viper changes are good actually” thread is an example of this

Randomly pulling thread names out of the aether that seem to align with the point that it people do agree with changes while ignoring these threads exist won’t go anywhere

[Divinemights]

You also can’t ignore the fact that there is a strangely large amount of people in 14 who will white knight anything.

There is also a fact there is a strangely large portion of players in FF14 will accuse others being White Knights when they unable to present a valid argument but really want to shut up those who do not agree

[Supersnow845]

There is also a fact there is a strangely large portion of players in FF14 will accuse others being White Knights when they unable to present a valid argument but really want to shut up those who do not agree

That’s why I specifically said threads that present opposition to prevailing criticism but are completely vapid or empty

If the devs are getting criticised for an unpopular change making a thread titled “I just want to thank the devs for all they do for us” is just bait

Valid praise for actually well designed elements is fine (I’ll gush about pictomancer all day if you give me half a chance), vapid threads that just amount to people unhappy that I he game receiving criticism is not. That’s not anti white knighting and if you aren’t white knighting then actually defend your point. If you come in and go “I like this and no I won’t explain my point to anyone” I’m probably gonna assume you are a white knight

[Aravell]

There is also a fact there is a strangely large portion of players in FF14 will accuse others being White Knights when they unable to present a valid argument but really want to shut up those who do not agree

Let's be real, a lot of people are guilty of trying to dismiss other people's opinions. It's not just one side or another.

"You're just a white knight/SE defender/bootlicker/shill"
"You're just a doomer/negative nancy/hater"
"From my extensive research of searching up your name in a certain website, I can deduce that you do not do a certain type of content, so um, shut up"

All very common things to see on here, all used to dismiss arguments out of hand.

[Divinemights]

Let's be real, a lot of people are guilty of trying to dismiss other people's opinions. It's not just one side or another.

"You're just a white knight/SE defender/bootlicker/shill"
"You're just a doomer/negative nancy/hater"
"From my extensive research of searching up your name in a certain website, I can deduce that you do not do a certain type of content, so um, shut up"

All very common things to see on here, all used to dismiss arguments out of hand.

The main problem with FF14 player community is we have developed a "Customer is always right" complex.
Also due to rise of cancel culture, anyone trying to explain the fact will labeled as "White Knight"
Are players always right?

[Valence]

The main problem with FF14 player community is we have developed a "Customer is always right" complex.
Also due to rise of cancel culture, anyone trying to explain the fact will labeled as "White Knight"
Are players always right?

The idea that being right in game design as a binary concept between the players being right OR the devs being right is a fantasy, especially since depending on sides and the lens through which every individual gauges "right" and "wrong" is as subjective as it is nebulous. This isn't about being right or wrong, this is about the dev team presenting the playerbase with a finished product with clear design choices, and being faced by a certain amount of backlash. To various degrees, the playerbase will be either satisfied or not satisfied with certain designs, and it's on the dev team to make sense of what went wrong or right, and what to keep or change or discard.

On the player side it's exactly like politics and it's about pushing for specific changes or directions, and exactly like politics, not everyone agrees on things in the playerbase. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about bringing the devs closer to your side/view. And like in politics, whether they deliver with the product or not, especially regarding their own constituency they tried to please, is another story.

However, there is one metric where the player will always be right, and it's about how they do feel and what their tastes are through their feedback. Nobody can take that from you, and having anybody saying they know better for your own sake and that they should take over instead, I already know where this leads, no matter if it's a game or real life.