What's with the forums?

[Striker44]

I'll admit, I haven't been here that long, but why are the forums so... miserable? I get that people come here to give feedback, but it feels like some people see it as permission to be as toxic as possible. To be clear, I'm not talking about just any criticism. I mean people demanding staff members be fired over mild grievances, claiming there's some kind of conspiracy to ruin the game, portraying anyone who isn't as negative as them as idiotic, that type of thing. I guess what I'm trying to say is at some point, there's a line between criticism and entitlement. Have the forums always been this way? Even before I set up my forum profile I heard they have a reputation.

In a word, yes. These forums have long been an echo chamber of negativity. The worst expansion is always (insert current expansion), which is such trash compared to (insert previous expansion which is now suddenly amazing despite being trash when it was current).

It makes sense from a psychology perspective, though. People are much more likely to complain than they are to praise something, especially like a video game intended for casual gamers. Most people really enjoying themselves are...well...playing the game.

EW is now regularly spoken of positively here, but during EW itself, there was the usual multi-hundred-page thread trashing everything about it. Heck, even ShB was ragged on here despite widely being viewed as the "top" expansion.

Which, again, makes sense. The people who posted here during ShB were mainly those who didn't like how it retconned Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Then EW happened and retconned the retcon, and it was those who didn't like the new retcon that cycled in to complain. Now, it's the people who don't like the new direction of DT who proliferate. But each of those groups generally liked the previous installment before the changes, so suddenly the conversation about past expansions gets a lot more positive.

The sad part is when you create an echo chamber, it's easy for the people in it to get a greatly overinflated sense of how large their "movement" really is. "Hey, everyone here agrees with me - therefore the whole playerbase must!" Nevermind that we represent nothing more than the proverbial grain of sand on the beach, and the rest of the beach is having fun playing the game.

That said, I'm here banging pots and pans in certain threads about these issues because I do deeply care about this game and want to see it improve.

I think conversation could become so much more productive if people could separate their own personal opinions from objective facts. For example, I have no doubt that you care deeply about this game. However, what you really want to see is not for the game to truly improve (objectively speaking), but rather for it improve for you. The same thing any one of us views as an improvement could just as easily be seen as a disappointment by someone else. If we could make that distinction, we might start realizing how comments like this inherently come off as telling other people they are "wrong" for enjoying the game as it is.

[CuteBucket]

I think conversation could become so much more productive if people could separate their own personal opinions from objective facts. For example, I have no doubt that you care deeply about this game. However, what you really want to see is not for the game to truly improve (objectively speaking), but rather for it improve for you. The same thing any one of us views as an improvement could just as easily be seen as a disappointment by someone else. If we could make that distinction, we might start realizing how comments like this inherently come off as telling other people they are "wrong" for enjoying the game as it is.

How is me asking Square Enix to fix broken DC travel, fix messed up character faces, and move away from an embarrassingly bad story (as supported by tons of negative reviews outside of this forum) only asking to improve things personally for me? Two of those three problems I listed in my original comment didn't even exist before Dawntrail came out.

When this graphical update has left so many people (nearly 200 pages of posts and 400+ more pages from the JP side) upset about the changes, and another group of people unable to play the game for as long or at all due to eyestrain from the new graphics, yes, I believe that is a real, objective problem that goes far beyond just me and my wants. Some minor facial changes could be seen as subjective, but maybe the devs shouldn't have promised us that they were going to preserve the look and feel of our characters in that case?

When every day that I log in to play with my friend and all of my Dynamis friends bemoan the DC travel restrictions but I'm the only one who goes on the forums much, and once again I see many people with the same problem, a problem that did not exist before 7.05 and does nothing to "fix" the issues with Dynamis being dead and may even be making it worse, I don't think I'm asking for something to be changed simply improve my personal experience. It's not a one-to-one "an improvement for me is a disappointment to someone else."

And lastly, no, someone criticizing the game in good faith absolutely does NOT come off as "telling other people they are 'wrong' for enjoying the game as it is." That's your own insecurity and your own issue to confront in yourself, don't project that onto me. I'm very personally attached to some characters in this game and don't like seeing them get trashed, so you know what I do when I see it? I add that person to my ignore list and don't go into threads where I know I may be upset by the discussion. If you loved the Dawntrail MSQ and/or Wuk Lamat, don't go into the places that say right on the door "We don't like the Dawntrail MSQ and/or Wuk Lamat."

[Akonyl]

I guess what I'm trying to say is at some point, there's a line between criticism and entitlement. Have the forums always been this way?

It wasn't always quite this way, there have always been complaints, but checking the forums recently the entitlement of the complaints has definitely had a noticable uptick.

It's kind of tinfoil-y, but in a way I almost blame the handling of the graphical update for the change. When the benchmark came out and there were issues, there was a big hubbub about it, and SE had a very quick response to it (including action) which was a lot faster than the turnaround on the majority of other feedback seen here. I feel like that kind of emboldened people into believing that if they just blow things as out of proportion as possible, that they're more likely to be heard, so they pull the "this person should be fired", "the game is unplayable because of (minor graphical nit / gameplay issue) and SE should issue an apology" etc cards.

[Bonoki]

The forums have become a misery hub, and honestly, it’s not surprising. People need a place to be heard. If you air your frustrations on Twitter, the so-called 'positive, wholesome' community will shut you down in a heartbeat. That leaves the forums as the only spot where negativity and frustration can breathe. It gathers here because it's been pushed out of every other space. For those who feel unsatisfied, there’s no safe space left to vent, except here. It also helps that there is the slim fateful chance that the devs might see your post or have it relayed to them. Thus fueling things as well.

[Fawkes]

Most people come here because they think that the devs will read their complaint if they post it here.

[BabyYoda]

Most people come here because they think that the devs will read their complaint if they post it here.

I have never felt that until recently and I start losing faith after DT release

[sindriiisgaming]

I mean people demanding staff members be fired over mild grievances, claiming there's some kind of conspiracy to ruin the game,

if this is about bryer then we have pretty good reason to ask her to be removed

[AureliusIX]

I'll admit, I haven't been here that long, but why are the forums so... miserable? I get that people come here to give feedback, but it feels like some people see it as permission to be as toxic as possible. To be clear, I'm not talking about just any criticism. I mean people demanding staff members be fired over mild grievances, claiming there's some kind of conspiracy to ruin the game, portraying anyone who isn't as negative as them as idiotic, that type of thing. I guess what I'm trying to say is at some point, there's a line between criticism and entitlement. Have the forums always been this way? Even before I set up my forum profile I heard they have a reputation.

I completely understand where you’re coming from when you're talking about the negative atmosphere on the forums. I too can feel becoming frustrated when a place that should be for constructive discussion and shared enthusiasm becomes dominated by negativity. However, you can't deny this negativity is a symptom of deeper concerns a lot of us have within the community, particularly when we're feeling that our feedback isn’t being heard or addressed by the developers.

The frustration many of us are expressing comes from a place of love for the game. When something we care about doesn’t meet our expectations, it can lead to a lot of emotional reactions. We, that is the community have grown to expect a certain level of quality and responsiveness from the developers, this is down to the game’s history of being incredibly player-focused by this I mean YoshiP and the devs have been very aware over the years of how important to maintain player satisfaction. When those expectations we have aren’t met, it can feel like the developers are distant or not as transparent as they have been in the past.

The concern a lot of us have about a lack of developer reassurance could be tied to a few things that I'll try to outline:

Communication Gaps: While the development team does communicate, sometimes the timing or content of these communications doesn’t fully address the community’s concerns. For example, updates might focus on upcoming features without directly addressing ongoing issues or player complaints.
High Expectations: Final Fantasy XIV has set a high bar with previous expansions and content updates. When new content or expansions don’t resonate as strongly with players, it can lead to disappointment, which manifests as negativity.
Community Feedback Loop: Negative feedback, when not acknowledged or addressed, can snowball. Players might feel that their concerns are dismissed or not taken seriously, which exacerbates frustration.

To put simply, a lot of us have love for the game but we're getting very frustrated with the current direction of the game and lack of communication.

[AureliusIX]

To add on to my previous post:
that frustration is difficult to express when you can't discuss this on reddit, or twitter or many other places without being shut down by people who take legitimate criticism of the game to be a personal attack. This is one of the only places left people can express that frustration they have.

[Ramiee]

It's negativity bias for a forum made for feedback. There's better places for positivity such as Reddit and twitter when discussing XIV, if you don't like the critical negative forums I suggest moving on to greener pastures.