Why current job design is boring?

[CaptainLagbeard]

Healers and Tanks are sub DPS jobs and they should be like that..

tanks having higher damage isn't acceptable even more of that how warrior solo heal expert content it is just a complete mess

Aside from boosting Healers damage, most Tank heals should definitely be nerfed...
I would be more than willing to let WAR keep their self-heals as those are kind of part of it's identity... But their ability to heal other people should be much weaker... The heal and regen from Shake It Off being removed for other people, and Nascent Flash taken down to like 100 potency...
As for the others, I think DRK probably has the most reasonable amount of tank healing with Abyssal Drain on a 1min CD and Shadowed Vigil on a 2min CD... Maybe take Souleater down to like a 200 potency heal...

[BabyYoda]

I also believe that they simply went with the safest route to make future changes about the jobs easier (and cheaper). If you turn all of them into a single framework with different animations, balancing them out does indeed becomes easier, but at what cost?

As history shows, some jobs WILL be frowned upon no matter what, even when difference in dps is 2%, even if you can clear content with lowest performing jobs (P8S didn't happen, no no no, don't look here!). Their "perfect balance" idea is simply not achievable and sticking to 2 minutes meta will only further harm the game.

I don't believe it is that hard to balance unstructured job design..

I believe you can create a unique kit.. play it in 1 savage 10 times get the average DPS for 1 min.. 2min.. 5min.. 10min and adjust their potencies in each.
regarding buffs just keep it with 1 job that they can keep buffs consistent.

but why when can just copy paste jobs like WAR and DRK.. it is really horrible

[BabyYoda]

Aside from boosting Healers damage, most Tank heals should definitely be nerfed...
I would be more than willing to let WAR keep their self-heals as those are kind of part of it's identity... But their ability to heal other people should be much weaker... The heal and regen from Shake It Off being removed for other people, and Nascent Flash taken down to like 100 potency...
As for the others, I think DRK probably has the most reasonable amount of tank healing with Abyssal Drain on a 1min CD and Shadowed Vigil on a 2min CD... Maybe take Souleater down to like a 200 potency heal...

self healing is the ability to go from 20% to 100% PERMENENT compare that to shields and blocks

to fix warrior issue is to fix other tanks and mainly encounter design..


If warrior have the ability to heal from 10% to 100% in 3 seconds.. let PLD block 80% of the damage received.. let dark knight shield 80% of their HP

encounters should deal more damage too

[ovIm]

Aside from boosting Healers damage, most Tank heals should definitely be nerfed...
I would be more than willing to let WAR keep their self-heals as those are kind of part of it's identity... But their ability to heal other people should be much weaker... The heal and regen from Shake It Off being removed for other people, and Nascent Flash taken down to like 100 potency...
As for the others, I think DRK probably has the most reasonable amount of tank healing with Abyssal Drain on a 1min CD and Shadowed Vigil on a 2min CD... Maybe take Souleater down to like a 200 potency heal...

The fact that so many tanks can heal a party the way they can is obscene. Best thing tanks should do is provide party shields on a high CD, not heal the party directly. That should be a healers job, really.

[Eyrilona]

Aside from boosting Healers damage, most Tank heals should definitely be nerfed...
I would be more than willing to let WAR keep their self-heals as those are kind of part of it's identity... But their ability to heal other people should be much weaker... The heal and regen from Shake It Off being removed for other people, and Nascent Flash taken down to like 100 potency...
As for the others, I think DRK probably has the most reasonable amount of tank healing with Abyssal Drain on a 1min CD and Shadowed Vigil on a 2min CD... Maybe take Souleater down to like a 200 potency heal...

Wait.. there is a small logic flaw in here. WAR don't actually want to spend time out of their rotation healing other party members, so if they do, some circumstances must be forcing them. It is portrayed here as competition for the designated healer, but WAR already has negative incentive to be healing anyone but themselves if they don't have to -- their foremost interest would be for them to just get to focus on their damage rotation only interrupted for mechanics. If the WAR is healing the party, that's a pretty strong sign that the healer either may be dead/frozen/petrified right now, or failed at mana management and ran out? They'd not really be taking the healer's job if they only do it at times when the healer for whatever reason already isn't, no?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Wait.. there is a small logic flaw in here. WAR don't actually want to spend time out of their rotation healing other party members, so if they do, some circumstances must be forcing them. It is portrayed here as competition for the designated healer, but WAR already has negative incentive to be healing anyone but themselves if they don't have to -- their foremost interest would be for them to just get to focus on their damage rotation only interrupted for mechanics. If the WAR is healing the party, that's a pretty strong sign that the healer either may be dead/frozen/petrified right now, or failed at mana management and ran out? They'd not really be taking the healer's job if they only do it at times when the healer for whatever reason already isn't, no?

WAR doesnt need to stop their damage rotation to heal itself or party members. Nascent Flash heals a party member whenever the WAR lands a weaponskill, Equilibrium is a simple OGCD for self heals, and shake it off is also a fire and forget OGCD for shield + regen for the party. WAR can easily heal at least one party member while not having to give much thought to it, regardless of how the current party situation may look. To a lesser extent, GNB also doesn't need to stop its damage rotation to heal party members since Heart of Corrundum & Aurora are simple targetted abilities that provide healing.

You're thinking of PLD, where in order to do burst healing on the party, needs to actively stop its damage rotation to use Clemency, a hardcasted GCD spell. But yes, if a PLD is even remotely debating to use clemency, then it means the healer is likely dead.

Aside from boosting Healers damage, most Tank heals should definitely be nerfed...
I would be more than willing to let WAR keep their self-heals as those are kind of part of it's identity... But their ability to heal other people should be much weaker... The heal and regen from Shake It Off being removed for other people, and Nascent Flash taken down to like 100 potency...
As for the others, I think DRK probably has the most reasonable amount of tank healing with Abyssal Drain on a 1min CD and Shadowed Vigil on a 2min CD... Maybe take Souleater down to like a 200 potency heal...

The actual healing potency on Nascent Flash is irrelevant, 400 potency is fine - PLD's blade combo is also 400 potency iirc for each hit but its not keeping them perpetually sustained in mass pulls on its own.
The problem with Nascent is the fact that it applies the healing *per target hit.* It could be 100 potency but it'd still be busted purely for the fact it applies the heals many times over. If it applied a single 400 potency heal regardless of how many targets it hit like PLD's blade combo, it would still be a good healing tool for dungeons & boss fights, it would just no longer be a benediction on a 25s timer.

The amount it heals to other people could be nerfed a bit though, yeah.

[CaptainLagbeard]

The actual healing potency on Nascent Flash is irrelevant, 400 potency is fine - PLD's blade combo is also 400 potency iirc for each hit but its not keeping them perpetually sustained in mass pulls on its own.
The problem with Nascent is the fact that it applies the healing *per target hit.* It could be 100 potency but it'd still be busted purely for the fact it applies the heals many times over. If it applied a single 400 potency heal regardless of how many targets it hit like PLD's blade combo, it would still be a good healing tool for dungeons & boss fights, it would just no longer be a benediction on a 25s timer.

The amount it heals to other people could be nerfed a bit though, yeah.

Most boss fights you're only ever going to have one enemy to attack, so in those situations the whole per hit thing doesn't really matter... And at 100 potency compared to it's current 400, it's healing would be roughly cut to a quarter of it's current heals... It's wouldn't heal all that much, would be considerably weaker than even Second Wind. Nowhere near enough to replace a Healer, but can potentially push someone to survive one raidwide hit.

[Supersnow845]

Most boss fights you're only ever going to have one enemy to attack, so in those situations the whole per hit thing doesn't really matter... And at 100 potency compared to it's current 400, it's healing would be roughly cut to a quarter of it's current heals... It's wouldn't heal all that much, would be considerably weaker than even Second Wind. Nowhere near enough to replace a Healer, but can potentially push someone to survive one raidwide hit.

Or they could just cut the healing and the “I can help a person survive a raidwide” comes from them sharing a mitigation, not a heal

[Ramiee]

Or they could just cut the healing and the “I can help a person survive a raidwide” comes from them sharing a mitigation, not a heal

I think a tank/dps healing another player can exist but it must be detrimental to them if it's their role. I it cost gunbreaker a cartridge it could cost a RDM to lose 10-20 of its dark/white magic resource per vercure use.
I think if they can do this it would be the very last resort or a punishment which would also reinforce healers as being the best at healing as they don't sacrifice anything. It would be like a healer being able to tank for a few seconds but it costs the use of their damage or healing, they can do it but it's detrimental to so it.

It should also not be on every job in the role, a PLDs clemency makes sense, nacent flash doesn't. Red mage has white magic so it having the ability to heal (though poorly) makes sense too.
Granted this is all nice for utility but before they do anything like this they need to make healers the objectively best healers in the game and the quickest way to do that is to remove group healing on non healers and limit it to targeted healing and self healing and go from there.