Why current job design is boring?

[Connor]

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

Couldn't they just make the buff effects significantly higher when used outside of a party to compensate for solo? It could make for an interesting experience where success in solo’ing content as a healer requires understanding and proper use of buffs on themselves to get through the tougher solo content.

Though that’s putting aside my point above how I genuinely believe any kind of active support additions to any job would result in insane player backlash unless it somehow deals direct damage to the enemy (which would be weird lol). Not to mention devs love to hide behind their ‘design straw men’ I.E ‘that’s too hard to balance between healers!!!’ (Make it a role skill) ‘Too stressful!’ (So is everything according to devs) ‘We don’t want to make healers have to think’ (but they design the game around making healers find ways to ignore heal casts, maximise dps but don’t bother telling new players lol) ‘they already have their super complex 120-cool-down attacks healers are super fun and interesting now’.

Like, i love supporting the party enough that I’d play ffxiv for like 24/7 365 and buy every Mogstation item ever created if the devs ever decided to make things like buff rotations and actual gcd buffing/debuffing a thing. But having begged pleaded screamed cried shook etc since ARR for more ways to support the party and getting the goddamn 120s meta in return, I simply have no hope left that support will ever be fun or interesting or even existent in ffxiv. You will take your 120-sec auto buffs and you will like them

[Connor]

What I am suggesting is that DPS would still keep their buffs, but they would only affect themselves and not the party/raid. The party-wide effects to increase damage being given to Healers instead. Overall in terms of buffs, the DPS increases would stay relatively the same. Just from a different source and with less variance on the full potency depending on teams lineup. Maybe 20% is too much with 2 healers now that I think about it though...

And addition to that change, bring up healers pDPS to the same level as the completely unaffected Tanks.

Wouldn’t that just make things even worse for phys ranged though? 2/3 of them have ‘buffs party members’ as part of their core identity and gameplay. And since ‘ranged tax’ has to exist (apparently) it’s not like they'll ever get high enough dps that it actually changes how they compare to the other roles in terms of output. Which, makes Machinist raise a lot of questions lol, but that’s a whole other topic.

That said, I can totally understand removing buffs from most jobs; they didn’t need to give basically everyone a party buff ability lol. Like, who plays a Monk or a Dragoon like ‘oh man can’t wait to go buff and support the party’, instead of ‘oh man I can’t wait to go punch/jump on things’ lol.

[Tunda]

Wouldn’t that just make things even worse for phys ranged though? 2/3 of them have ‘buffs party members’ as part of their core identity and gameplay. And since ‘ranged tax’ has to exist (apparently) it’s not like they'll ever get high enough dps that it actually changes how they compare to the other roles in terms of output. Which, makes Machinist raise a lot of questions lol, but that’s a whole other topic.

That said, I can totally understand removing buffs from most jobs; they didn’t need to give basically everyone a party buff ability lol. Like, who plays a Monk or a Dragoon like ‘oh man can’t wait to go buff and support the party’, instead of ‘oh man I can’t wait to go punch/jump on things’ lol.

It's defiantly weird playing a Reaper then buffing party damage and healing them.. I mean for fantasy standpoint it is impossible.

MNK to me is more support than RPR which is in fantasy standpoint is logical to heal as a monk or buffing party damage.

but again we can have 2 MNK jobs:
1- Support MNK which is monk with more supportive kit.
2- DPS Striker which is punching machine

[BabyYoda]

We already have support jobs but it feels like SE not comfortable to add job the exclusive to support with minor DPS rotation something middle of tanks dps kit and healers dps kit

[MonsutaMan]

Noticed the combat feels "Samey" as an old noob (Have not completed the game despite playing on and off since beta). It feels like DCUO.

Every job is basically a carbon copy of one another. Example, fire superpowers is just like water, atomic, ice, etc. Every class in DCUO is an elemental wizard of some element. They are all aesthetically different, but mechanically feel the same in terms of button rotations and whatnot.

Keep in mind I have not beaten all the expansions, so it could change....idk.......

Feels a bit weird coming from XI, where every job felt distinct, despite many jobs be able to do multiple roles if needed. Example, Ninja and PLD are both tanks, but NIN tanked with shadows DDing and debuffing the mob with Ninjutsu avoiding hits, while PLD soaked up hits. Feels this may change later? But every XIV job feels the same. I am at the point where every tank heals with damage output (Perhaps this changes).

[Jojoya]

Does job design even remain interesting outside of that initial period as a new player when you're learning how a game's job/class system works and what it tends to offer?

There comes a point when job design starts feeling very boring and mechanical because you know it well. Muscle memory and habit take over from conscience decision.

Rather than try to guess at what might make it more interesting, come up with examples from other games where it already does remain interesting year after year then identify the element that allows their design to remain interesting.

Chances are good it's a normal reaction to how systems work, whether in games or in life. Anything can end up boring once you do it enough.

[Azurarok]

Does job design even remain interesting outside of that initial period as a new player when you're learning how a game's job/class system works and what it tends to offer?

When the game challenges you to keep your rotation going or adjust it based on the content it does stay interesting to me. It also breaks up the monotony in farming since it offers more room for improvement.

[Tunda]

When the game challenges you to keep your rotation going or adjust it based on the content it does stay interesting to me. It also breaks up the monotony in farming since it offers more room for improvement.

Not all jobs designed to have muscle memory.. for example dancer/old AST/kinda BRD, proc/rng based job that require you to have quick action.

keeping everything under one window limit the jobs and encounter design.

it's good that we have both BUT that could be achieved by changing the philosophy of many jobs and removing 1min/2min window for most jobs

[Azurarok]

Not all jobs designed to have muscle memory.. for example dancer/old AST/kinda BRD, proc/rng based job that require you to have quick action.

keeping everything under one window limit the jobs and encounter design.

it's good that we have both BUT that could be achieved by changing the philosophy of many jobs and removing 1min/2min window for most jobs

Oh yeah no I wasn't saying the current job design is good. I have a burning hatred for the 2 min meta from how much it's limiting job design. I'm saying it's a big part of what makes the battle system fun and they shouldn't be destroying it like they had for the past 2-3 expacs

[Tunda]

Oh yeah no I wasn't saying the current job design is good. I have a burning hatred for the 2 min meta from how much it's limiting job design. I'm saying it's a big part of what makes the battle system fun and they shouldn't be destroying it like they had for the past 2-3 expacs

Addressing 2min/1min window would be a good start to revamp a broken system