Why current job design is boring?

[Connor]

What I am suggesting is that DPS would still keep their buffs, but they would only affect themselves and not the party/raid. The party-wide effects to increase damage being given to Healers instead. Overall in terms of buffs, the DPS increases would stay relatively the same. Just from a different source and with less variance on the full potency depending on teams lineup. Maybe 20% is too much with 2 healers now that I think about it though...

And addition to that change, bring up healers pDPS to the same level as the completely unaffected Tanks.

Wouldn’t that just make things even worse for phys ranged though? 2/3 of them have ‘buffs party members’ as part of their core identity and gameplay. And since ‘ranged tax’ has to exist (apparently) it’s not like they'll ever get high enough dps that it actually changes how they compare to the other roles in terms of output. Which, makes Machinist raise a lot of questions lol, but that’s a whole other topic.

That said, I can totally understand removing buffs from most jobs; they didn’t need to give basically everyone a party buff ability lol. Like, who plays a Monk or a Dragoon like ‘oh man can’t wait to go buff and support the party’, instead of ‘oh man I can’t wait to go punch/jump on things’ lol.

[Supersnow845]

What I am suggesting is that DPS would still keep their buffs, but they would only affect themselves and not the party/raid. The party-wide effects to increase damage being given to Healers instead. Overall in terms of buffs, the DPS increases would stay relatively the same. Just from a different source and with less variance on the full potency depending on teams lineup. Maybe 20% is too much with 2 healers now that I think about it though...

And addition to that change, bring up healers pDPS to the same level as the completely unaffected Tanks.

Yes and I’m saying that’s overpowered, I don’t think you quite understand how much pDPS the tanks do. The tanks pDPS is the same as BRD and DNC’s pDPS. You are suggesting giving the healers tank level pDPS then adding in massive raid buffs then nerfing the DPS because they no longer gain rDPS from their raid buffs affecting others

Healers would jump to the strongest classes in the game overnight

[Ramiee]

I feel like tanks, and healers are already kinda intended as the 'support' roles with healers as 'ranged support,' and tanks as 'melee supports.'

DPS supports are supposed to be DPS first the Support second. Tanks and Healers are meant to be support first dps second in traditional MMOs but ARR from the ground up was designed with Tanks and Healers doing DPS so you're right they are technically support DPS which is part of the reason why Phys Range is in a severely awkward place, that and the fact support systems in this game do not exist, theres never any esuna use in high end content and interupting, controlling aggro or even constant healing just isn't in this game anymore. The only support left is telegraphed healing, mitigation and buffing, though all roles have options for this now so really the niches of Tanks and Healers and their main support systems don't exist. It would be a different story if raid buffs werent common and healers were the only ones to heal/mit and tanks had to control the boss more, right now theres no real true support jobs its just DPS with support options.

[BabyYoda]

DPS supports are supposed to be DPS first the Support second. Tanks and Healers are meant to be support first dps second in traditional MMOs but ARR from the ground up was designed with Tanks and Healers doing DPS so you're right they are technically support DPS which is part of the reason why Phys Range is in a severely awkward place, that and the fact support systems in this game do not exist, theres never any esuna use in high end content and interupting, controlling aggro or even constant healing just isn't in this game anymore. The only support left is telegraphed healing, mitigation and buffing, though all roles have options for this now so really the niches of Tanks and Healers and their main support systems don't exist. It would be a different story if raid buffs werent common and healers were the only ones to heal/mit and tanks had to control the boss more, right now theres no real true support jobs its just DPS with support options.

Support first and DPS second can exist but it is a bad design choice to have dps first support second.

Because it will never be as good as dps and it will never be as support as supports

Tanks are dps first tanks second which it is less supportive than current healers

[BabyYoda]

We already have support jobs but it feels like SE not comfortable to add job the exclusive to support with minor DPS rotation something middle of tanks dps kit and healers dps kit

[CaptainLagbeard]

Yes and I’m saying that’s overpowered, I don’t think you quite understand how much pDPS the tanks do. The tanks pDPS is the same as BRD and DNC’s pDPS. You are suggesting giving the healers tank level pDPS then adding in massive raid buffs then nerfing the DPS because they no longer gain rDPS from their raid buffs affecting others

Healers would jump to the strongest classes in the game overnight

Healers theoretically at least still have to stop DPSing to heal occasionally, thus leaving less uptime than Tanks and ranged phys. And Ranged Phys still would have their own buffs to increasing their DPS as a whole.

[MonsutaMan]

Noticed the combat feels "Samey" as an old noob (Have not completed the game despite playing on and off since beta). It feels like DCUO.

Every job is basically a carbon copy of one another. Example, fire superpowers is just like water, atomic, ice, etc. Every class in DCUO is an elemental wizard of some element. They are all aesthetically different, but mechanically feel the same in terms of button rotations and whatnot.

Keep in mind I have not beaten all the expansions, so it could change....idk.......

Feels a bit weird coming from XI, where every job felt distinct, despite many jobs be able to do multiple roles if needed. Example, Ninja and PLD are both tanks, but NIN tanked with shadows DDing and debuffing the mob with Ninjutsu avoiding hits, while PLD soaked up hits. Feels this may change later? But every XIV job feels the same. I am at the point where every tank heals with damage output (Perhaps this changes).

[Jojoya]

Does job design even remain interesting outside of that initial period as a new player when you're learning how a game's job/class system works and what it tends to offer?

There comes a point when job design starts feeling very boring and mechanical because you know it well. Muscle memory and habit take over from conscience decision.

Rather than try to guess at what might make it more interesting, come up with examples from other games where it already does remain interesting year after year then identify the element that allows their design to remain interesting.

Chances are good it's a normal reaction to how systems work, whether in games or in life. Anything can end up boring once you do it enough.

[Azurarok]

AST was complained about because it’s excessive APM bloat disguised as complexity, there was no complexity to EW AST it was just a test of horribly bad APM (especially on controller) that heavily punished failure

More specifically its high APM during its burst, which funnily enough is no better in DT, possibly worse because of the way Astral/Umbral Draw works can mix up when to insert Lord of Crowns. The only thing that's better is the second light speed charge

I've heard none of the cards could be stacked back in SB and you basically just had AoE Balance (or single target Balance or none at all with bad RNG) so it was arguably less busy than it had been since ShB.

[Azurarok]

Does job design even remain interesting outside of that initial period as a new player when you're learning how a game's job/class system works and what it tends to offer?

When the game challenges you to keep your rotation going or adjust it based on the content it does stay interesting to me. It also breaks up the monotony in farming since it offers more room for improvement.