Why current job design is boring?

[Ramiee]

I feel like tanks, and healers are already kinda intended as the 'support' roles with healers as 'ranged support,' and tanks as 'melee supports.'

DPS supports are supposed to be DPS first the Support second. Tanks and Healers are meant to be support first dps second in traditional MMOs but ARR from the ground up was designed with Tanks and Healers doing DPS so you're right they are technically support DPS which is part of the reason why Phys Range is in a severely awkward place, that and the fact support systems in this game do not exist, theres never any esuna use in high end content and interupting, controlling aggro or even constant healing just isn't in this game anymore. The only support left is telegraphed healing, mitigation and buffing, though all roles have options for this now so really the niches of Tanks and Healers and their main support systems don't exist. It would be a different story if raid buffs werent common and healers were the only ones to heal/mit and tanks had to control the boss more, right now theres no real true support jobs its just DPS with support options.

[BabyYoda]

DPS supports are supposed to be DPS first the Support second. Tanks and Healers are meant to be support first dps second in traditional MMOs but ARR from the ground up was designed with Tanks and Healers doing DPS so you're right they are technically support DPS which is part of the reason why Phys Range is in a severely awkward place, that and the fact support systems in this game do not exist, theres never any esuna use in high end content and interupting, controlling aggro or even constant healing just isn't in this game anymore. The only support left is telegraphed healing, mitigation and buffing, though all roles have options for this now so really the niches of Tanks and Healers and their main support systems don't exist. It would be a different story if raid buffs werent common and healers were the only ones to heal/mit and tanks had to control the boss more, right now theres no real true support jobs its just DPS with support options.

Support first and DPS second can exist but it is a bad design choice to have dps first support second.

Because it will never be as good as dps and it will never be as support as supports

Tanks are dps first tanks second which it is less supportive than current healers

[Ramiee]

Support first and DPS second can exist but it is a bad design choice to have dps first support second.

Because it will never be as good as dps and it will never be as support as supports

Tanks are dps first tanks second which it is less supportive than current healers

Thats my point.

[Connor]

All jobs are dps jobs even tanks are dps even healers are dps.
Support job is also dps job but not as selfish.

It is how job is designed what makes them interesting not how much damage they deal

And that design is - frankly - literally the closest ffxiv will ever get to ‘support classes’. Waiting for an essentially auto-activated raid buff every 120s then going back to being a DPS except with shit damage output. FFXIV players simply hate support classes; thats probably why the devs give party support abilities such extremely little though.

They know it’s pointless to develop actual active ways to support to party because there’d just be wave after wave of constant bitching about ‘rEmoVe my Support sO I CaN bE tOp DPS’ ‘I don’t want to have to spend 1.5 casting on a Bard I hate you YoshiP’ ‘Dancers shouldn’t have to dance to buff the party it should just be a dps cool-down’ etc etc.

Is it absolutely awful for anyone who had even a remote interest in party support? 100000%. Is it ever going to change in FFXIV’s lifetime? Absolutely not . The devs don’t want supportive classes in ffxiv, the community doesn’t want them, so they just don’t exist in ffxiv. You can get your 120-raid buff that basically automatically activated that literally everyone has and that’s it; nobody gets to be a ‘support’ in ffxiv. Not phys ranged, not healers, it’s a just dps

[BabyYoda]

And that design is - frankly - literally the closest ffxiv will ever get to ‘support classes’. Waiting for an essentially auto-activated raid buff every 120s then going back to being a DPS except with shit damage output. FFXIV players simply hate support classes; thats probably why the devs give party support abilities such extremely little though.

They know it’s pointless to develop actual active ways to support to party because there’d just be wave after wave of constant bitching about ‘rEmoVe my Support sO I CaN bE tOp DPS’ ‘I don’t want to have to spend 1.5 casting on a Bard I hate you YoshiP’ ‘Dancers shouldn’t have to dance to buff the party it should just be a dps cool-down’ etc etc.

Is it absolutely awful for anyone who had even a remote interest in party support? 100000%. Is it ever going to change in FFXIV’s lifetime? Absolutely not . The devs don’t want supportive classes in ffxiv, the community doesn’t want them, so they just don’t exist in ffxiv. You can get your 120-raid buff that basically automatically activated that literally everyone has and that’s it; nobody gets to be a ‘support’ in ffxiv. Not phys ranged, not healers, it’s a just dps

Idk if people don't like it but I know why people likes Dancer

When ShB release everyone was playing Dancer because it is phy range and support job

Easy to play and interesting with its proc style rotation.

People don't hate it people hate how they have been implementing it.

People like astro for a reason.. half support job royal road.. cards.. but they removed it for whatever reason.

Personally I play selfish DPS jobs but I also play Support DPS too and I am having fun with both until DT

[Bellybell]

[*] introduce new role "Supports" who will responsible for party buffs.

Problem with this is, it will be too big an overhaul which included fixing pt requirement through 2.0 until the latest expac.

And even if they try, the pt composite will probably be screw because too big a proportion of DPS classes pool.
- In 8 man pt, lessen the Tank or Healer to 1 will likely strained and stressed a good proportion of them to outcry
- Lessen the DPS to 3 would sound annoying due to too many DPS classes + too many DPS players
unless they make overhaul to 5/10 pt or something maybe

[BabyYoda]

Problem with this is, it will be too big an overhaul which included fixing pt requirement through 2.0 until the latest expac.

And even if they try, the pt composite will probably be screw because too big a proportion of DPS classes pool.
- In 8 man pt, lessen the Tank or Healer to 1 will likely strained and stressed a good proportion of them to outcry
- Lessen the DPS to 3 would sound annoying due to too many DPS classes + too many DPS players
unless they make overhaul to 5/10 pt or something maybe

There is a need to rethink of the current design and change things before people stop carrying and drop it all together

[Supersnow845]

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

[BabyYoda]

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

On paper this is a quick fix to current issue but..

Will people who enjoy straightforward healer like WHM will enjoy doing buffs?
Ok how to make them interesting without press X button to get 10% extra damage buff?

Support jobs should natural like how dancer and kinda bard is..

[CaptainLagbeard]

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

Healer pDPS shouldn't be cut, in fact it should be increased.

But, for making them the dedicated support... Take away the partywide buffs from most DPS... BRD and DNC maybe can keep theirs, since they were intended to be partially support...But Brotherhood, Enbolden, Arcane Circle, Battle Litany, Starry Muse, Mug and Searing Light losing their boost to the raid... And then boosting Divination and Chain Stratagem to like 20% Damage boosts and also giving WHM and SGE something as well to buff damage... Could always give them different flavors of damage boosts, like Haste and Direct Hit chance... Like making WHM's Presence of Mind stronger and raidwide...