Why current job design is boring?

[BabyYoda]

I would agree with removing party damage buffs. They would still work around certain timesframes because mechanics and mitigations also have always aligned with certain intervals, but at least this would be reduced to be better even than it was before Endwalker where they could choose which interval for different parts of the rotation.

Generally, the ranged physical role were always regarded as this (even by SE, if you notice things like the run speed buff, party-wide mit, BRD's old kit, DNC's kit). Other interpretations have tanks/healers as the supports.

And phy range moved away from supporting to party or making the buffs to press X button every 45 second with no creative designs.. Dancer is the only support job that has a creative way to implement buff

[BabyYoda]

Naa, let’s just alienate any player that likes supporting the party in multiplayer games until they stop playing or force themselves to love dps’ing
/s

All jobs are dps jobs even tanks are dps even healers are dps.
Support job is also dps job but not as selfish.

It is how job is designed what makes them interesting not how much damage they deal

[BabyYoda]

I feel like tanks, and healers are already kinda intended as the 'support' roles with healers as 'ranged support,' and tanks as 'melee supports.'

Healers isn't supports but AST is as support as healer could be.. and the problem of AST is that they are designed around 1 min and 2 min buff window which they can't escape it because they are already doing 2 jobs at once

[BabyYoda]

If there was an easy fix we would already have it, but the 2 min window is a solution to a obvious problem. there is no easy fix without reworking all classes and when you just remove the group buffs, classes with self buffs on a timer will still have to do them in that window.
Even in wow it was best practice to sync your stuff with Bloodlust/Heroism. You might had a bit more controle about it but in they end you had to play around that buff if you did it on pull, in the middle or before enrage.
The moment you have group buffs people will try to sync them in the best way and with the best comp. In this case the Meta will define the window and not SE

I mean no one ask for 2 min or 1 min window.. it is philosophy that is holding the game back to not be creative

[Connor]

All jobs are dps jobs even tanks are dps even healers are dps.
Support job is also dps job but not as selfish.

It is how job is designed what makes them interesting not how much damage they deal

And that design is - frankly - literally the closest ffxiv will ever get to ‘support classes’. Waiting for an essentially auto-activated raid buff every 120s then going back to being a DPS except with shit damage output. FFXIV players simply hate support classes; thats probably why the devs give party support abilities such extremely little though.

They know it’s pointless to develop actual active ways to support to party because there’d just be wave after wave of constant bitching about ‘rEmoVe my Support sO I CaN bE tOp DPS’ ‘I don’t want to have to spend 1.5 casting on a Bard I hate you YoshiP’ ‘Dancers shouldn’t have to dance to buff the party it should just be a dps cool-down’ etc etc.

Is it absolutely awful for anyone who had even a remote interest in party support? 100000%. Is it ever going to change in FFXIV’s lifetime? Absolutely not . The devs don’t want supportive classes in ffxiv, the community doesn’t want them, so they just don’t exist in ffxiv. You can get your 120-raid buff that basically automatically activated that literally everyone has and that’s it; nobody gets to be a ‘support’ in ffxiv. Not phys ranged, not healers, it’s a just dps

[BabyYoda]

And that design is - frankly - literally the closest ffxiv will ever get to ‘support classes’. Waiting for an essentially auto-activated raid buff every 120s then going back to being a DPS except with shit damage output. FFXIV players simply hate support classes; thats probably why the devs give party support abilities such extremely little though.

They know it’s pointless to develop actual active ways to support to party because there’d just be wave after wave of constant bitching about ‘rEmoVe my Support sO I CaN bE tOp DPS’ ‘I don’t want to have to spend 1.5 casting on a Bard I hate you YoshiP’ ‘Dancers shouldn’t have to dance to buff the party it should just be a dps cool-down’ etc etc.

Is it absolutely awful for anyone who had even a remote interest in party support? 100000%. Is it ever going to change in FFXIV’s lifetime? Absolutely not . The devs don’t want supportive classes in ffxiv, the community doesn’t want them, so they just don’t exist in ffxiv. You can get your 120-raid buff that basically automatically activated that literally everyone has and that’s it; nobody gets to be a ‘support’ in ffxiv. Not phys ranged, not healers, it’s a just dps

Idk if people don't like it but I know why people likes Dancer

When ShB release everyone was playing Dancer because it is phy range and support job

Easy to play and interesting with its proc style rotation.

People don't hate it people hate how they have been implementing it.

People like astro for a reason.. half support job royal road.. cards.. but they removed it for whatever reason.

Personally I play selfish DPS jobs but I also play Support DPS too and I am having fun with both until DT

[CaptainLagbeard]

All jobs are dps jobs even tanks are dps even healers are dps.
Support job is also dps job but not as selfish.

It is how job is designed what makes them interesting not how much damage they deal

I would argue that under current design healers aren't DPS, by the fact that they don't do enough damage to count as a DPS.

[Bellybell]

[*] introduce new role "Supports" who will responsible for party buffs.

Problem with this is, it will be too big an overhaul which included fixing pt requirement through 2.0 until the latest expac.

And even if they try, the pt composite will probably be screw because too big a proportion of DPS classes pool.
- In 8 man pt, lessen the Tank or Healer to 1 will likely strained and stressed a good proportion of them to outcry
- Lessen the DPS to 3 would sound annoying due to too many DPS classes + too many DPS players
unless they make overhaul to 5/10 pt or something maybe

[PercibelTheren]

The problem is having healers to support is overwhelming for most people.. there is a reason why SE reduce the support kit from AST..
Why playing a job who is responsible for 2 things instead of 1 ?
I get it is fun but also not fun at balance perspective.

That's why we have AST designed around 1 min and 2 min because it is overwhelming to do 2 jobs at once

Healers are missing esuna's and now we give them 10% of party damage? It is too much to ask for

What are you on about? Who are these "most people"? AST got gutted because they rework it every expansion, as they clearly have no idea what they want to do with it. What Esunas are healers missing? The vast majority of debuffs can't even be removed anymore.

[Supersnow845]

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role