How could the developers destroyed Tural like this?

[Fourbestintoner]

They had to make everything boring, safe and uninteresting otherwise white californians would have cried. They are still very diverse people though, they all just wear the same clothes and have the same beliefs, their culture is slightly different though. (their culture is actually their job)

[Crimen]

We had that in 1.0
the 'beast' tribes had open world dungeons. You could turn a corner and be met with a lvl 70 at lvl 10.
Fighting and winning vs enemies that were 10-20 levels higher than you. The world was dangerous, there was a tele IIRC in Brittlebark (Mor dhona that doesn't exist now) where you zoned in from tele and you stood very very still only panning your camera around. Why? There was a lvl90 Pieste right there and they are sight aggro. I miss those heart stopping moments. None of the open world now is dangerous. I don't go 'oh crap! oh crap! oh crap!' and need to run for my life.

I have loved his game since 2010, but I do have criticisms of it. Many GOOD things (belt graphics, buying the amount you needed out of a stack at the MB, (we got this next one back) being able to repair other ppls gear, everyone having a separate throwing item, being able to knock down mobs, or knock a skeleton's head off. for example) were destroyed with ARR. Over the years some of my most memorable moments in FF RPG's Xi and XIV - were heart stopping moments of OHHHHHHHH CRAP! XIV anymore just feels like I'm going through motions, I love this game enough to stay, hell 14 years of my life is a long investment... but I don't want to feel like this either.

One of the slightly more interesting things I miss from 1.0 was being able to perform incapacitation on mobs or bosses, like breaking off Ifrit's horns or cutting off the Chimera's tail, finding coblyns with their heads cracked opened, etc.

[lolnotacat]

There was no enemies, being it cultists, savage tribes (perhaps even cannibals), old mysterious ruins, conflicts, tales of ancient beings, forgotten and dangerous places... nothing. Everything is peacefull and happy and extremely uninteresting.

Would've caused more than a few consultants to lose it I'm sure.

you wanted to go to a place that we call the new world and find savage, cannibalistic tribes?
I'm not even against the main message that they could've done more with Tural, but man lol

They're all for "authenticity" except when they're not I guess. At least we got skibidi pibil.

[Gaddes]

Lack of open houses, Shaloaani had like 10 houses closed for 1 open? Lack of immersion, lazyness from devs, the world doesnt feel alive for it's size.

Game design wise the open world is just a vehicle for MSQ, nothing happens there.

And they used to have at least some of this, but lost it along the way. As an example I would present the Lambs of Dalamud stronghold in Northern Thanalan, with its little cul-de-sac area that was actually held by a hostile faction you would have to fight your way through, and its chains of story wise connected FATEs that made you really feel that this cult activity and stronghold was a whole actual thing going on right there in the zone map. But instead of refining the concept (like GW2 did), they abandoned it. In current zones, DoW/DoM leve quests that involve doing something in the zone map are no longer a thing at all, and if there are FATE chains, they only serve the purpose of spawning an S rank for the Hunt and go all over the zone map instead of highlighting one particular thing going on in one particular place of interest.

To be fair. None of the zones are very immersive. All the assets in the area of all the zones feel like a prop in a fun house.

That's something the game lacks. An actual threat and sense of discovery and adventure in the open world. Would be great if you had to explore inside a tomb or dungeon in the open world without access to a mount. Battle your way through beastman strongholds. Find open world treasure, ect. Everything is just instanced.

Agreed with all of these. I didn't realize it until reading this thread, but the single biggest problem with the Dawntrail zones is that they don't feel like living, breathing areas. Each location is literally crafted to be viewed during your MSQ progression and then doesn't do much outside of that. If you try to explore the maps, so much is open empty space with the same mobs, and none of it tells a "story." Compare that to the maps in ARR and HW, where you could go exploring and see elements in the environment that actually gave you clues as to who lives or lived there, what might've occurred there, or were subtle visual references to lore that wasn't just spoonfed to you via an exposition dump. Places that hint at something more and make you want to delve into what their significance is, because they don't just lead you to each spot for a quest or something. You know you did an area right when someone walks through it and wonders "hm.. what happened here..?"

The ruins of Gelmorra, the mun tuy cellars in the Shroud... the various ruins of New Sharlayan in the Hinterlands... the underwater ruins of Il Mheg... the underwater bubble settlements in the Ruby Sea... there are a lot visual stories in the nooks and crannies of past expansions' maps that I just don't see enough of in Dawntrail, and so it really doesn't entice someone to stick around in an environment like that.

I would very much like to see future zones that have that kind of natural storytelling in them, rather than just being used like a Disneyland attraction where you go from one isolated spot to another and then never return.

[DeathNoodles]

Savage tribes, really? Surprise to any American that doesn't bother to learn, the source material (indigenous tribal nations) had plumbing and water purifying systems while Europe were throwing shit out their windows. Societies were very advanced and that advancement was set back generations with smallpox and other diseases.

[Toskastic]

They had to make everything boring, safe and uninteresting otherwise white californians would have cried. They are still very diverse people though, they all just wear the same clothes and have the same beliefs, their culture is slightly different though. (their culture is actually their job)

You forgot to mention that these largely interchangeable people—who, even if it's not immediately apparent, always end up sharing the same values, because relativism—have different food and, therefore, are distinctly different cultures, actually.

[ExESGO]

Agreed with all of these. I didn't realize it until reading this thread, but the single biggest problem with the Dawntrail zones is that they don't feel like living, breathing areas. Each location is literally crafted to be viewed during your MSQ progression and then doesn't do much outside of that. If you try to explore the maps, so much is open empty space with the same mobs, and none of it tells a "story." Compare that to the maps in ARR and HW, where you could go exploring and see elements in the environment that actually gave you clues as to who lives or lived there, what might've occurred there, or were subtle visual references to lore that wasn't just spoonfed to you via an exposition dump. Places that hint at something more and make you want to delve into what their significance is, because they don't just lead you to each spot for a quest or something. You know you did an area right when someone walks through it and wonders "hm.. what happened here..?"

The ruins of Gelmorra, the mun tuy cellars in the Shroud... the various ruins of New Sharlayan in the Hinterlands... the underwater ruins of Il Mheg... the underwater bubble settlements in the Ruby Sea... there are a lot visual stories in the nooks and crannies of past expansions' maps that I just don't see enough of in Dawntrail, and so it really doesn't entice someone to stick around in an environment like that.

I would very much like to see future zones that have that kind of natural storytelling in them, rather than just being used like a Disneyland attraction where you go from one isolated spot to another and then never return.

It's been that way since Shadowbringers and got worse during Endwalker ie. Thavnair and Garlemald. I think Dawntrail has better more organic zone design versus Endwalker, but it's still not up there as ARR's. For context I do adore ARR's zone design and consider it peak zone design in the game.

[sindriiisgaming]

im really disappointed aswell in the push towards all this NEO future stuff and nothing no ancient ruins or civilizations. you can really see how the old story <6.1 was all about lost ruins and old cultures. from the amdaporians to the ancients even the mad king of alamigo were all explored ideas that got some fleshing out. the idea of ancient ronka is so inviting. how id love to see these ancient civilizations in there prime... but then you have tural.. home of the maya.. sooo much potential.. potenia even shb used with ronka.. and its.. its 1 dungeon? and its all copypasted? nah bro. i was really mad. also absolutely no mayan panfute music but the dng is shb got it.

[Palladiamors]

It's been that way since Shadowbringers and got worse during Endwalker ie. Thavnair and Garlemald. I think Dawntrail has better more organic zone design versus Endwalker, but it's still not up there as ARR's. For context I do adore ARR's zone design and consider it peak zone design in the game.

I feel like Shadowbringers was the first time they didn't really have a plan. You saw it in the MSQ ((Smack dab in the middle of a war...LETS GO ON AN EXPANSION LONG SIDE QUEST! PEOPLE LOVE GRAHA, RIGHT?!)) you saw it in the zones (( a bunch of zones with no real interconnecting theme)) and you saw it with job designs. I don't know what happened in Stormblood that broke the team but if I had a time machine, fixing that would be on my list. Further down but on the list.

[ExESGO]

I feel like Shadowbringers was the first time they didn't really have a plan. You saw it in the MSQ ((Smack dab in the middle of a war...LETS GO ON AN EXPANSION LONG SIDE QUEST! PEOPLE LOVE GRAHA, RIGHT?!)) you saw it in the zones (( a bunch of zones with no real interconnecting theme)) and you saw it with job designs. I don't know what happened in Stormblood that broke the team but if I had a time machine, fixing that would be on my list. Further down but on the list.

There is too much empty space and that's what always struck me as odd. ARR zone had this thing that while compact, everything made sense where it was and felt more lived in. The zone towns in Dawntrail finally got that aspect right, but the zones itself have too much dead space. I'm not sure what exactly it needs, but imo adding world bosses wouldn't fix me lose my suspension of disbelief (I do think Urqopacha is the best at giving me ARR zone vibes). For the cities, Tuliyollal's design is better, it still suffers from things are too tall for no real reason, but the lack of traffic through the main road bugs me. Solution 9 is horrible; you could have fit everything into the Recreation Zone.