DT's Writing: What Could've Been Better

[StormChase]

Gosetsu, Yukiri, Hien, Esternien, Ice Heart all had the same or far less screen time than WL and they'll all heroic characters. While not all of them are "great", they're all at least "good". At the sametime, if I say WL is "not that bad", that would just me being extremely polite. Heck, Moenbryda got introduced in one patch and killed in the next and still left a much stronger and more positive impression.

It's not about the time, it's what you do with it. You can cut WL's time in half, or you can double and I doubt the perception about the character would change. One pile of crap, two pile of crap or half a pile of crap, the amount ain't gonna change the fact they're still just crap.

Even the characters you listed have something going for them, though. Yeah, they're heroic, but none of them are at square one of their journey by the time you meet them. Gosestu, Yugiri, and Hien have already fought in a failed revolt. Estinien has years of experience under his belt as a dragoon. Ysayle's made a name for herself as a heretic leader. Wuk Lamat has none of that. That's the big difference with her. Also, this is a topic for another day but I wouldn't really call Moenbryda a good example of a character who got enough screen time.

[StormChase]

Even the characters you listed have something going for them, though. Yeah, they're heroic, but none of them are at square one of their journey by the time you meet them. Gosestu, Yugiri, and Hien have already fought in a failed revolt. Estinien has years of experience under his belt as a dragoon. Ysayle's made a name for herself as a heretic leader. Wuk Lamat has none of that. That's the big difference with her. Also, this is a topic for another day but I wouldn't really call Moenbryda a good example of a character who got enough screen time.

For reference, it's almost like claiming Estinien could've started his dragoon training in 2.55 and there would be no negative impact on Heavensward's writing quality if it stayed the same length.

[MartinFreeman]

Something to add:

• Failed to expand on Koana's family. Remember the two oddly dressed Miqote standing at the ceremony when Wuk Lamat gave her speech? They actually were important but the MSQ forgot to expand on them other than one visit to Koana's home in Wild West land, then it was off to do what Wuk Lamat wanted.
• Failed to give Koana a chance to show his technical prowess with both Solution Nine and Alexandria. Even the Scions seemed to become suddenly dumb when we arrive there. Why did we have to bring Wuk Lamat again?

[Raven2014]

Even the characters you listed have something going for them, though. Yeah, they're heroic, but none of them are at square one of their journey by the time you meet them. Gosestu, Yugiri, and Hien have already fought in a failed revolt. Estinien has years of experience under his belt as a dragoon. Ysayle's made a name for herself as a heretic leader. Wuk Lamat has none of that. That's the big difference with her.

Not even sure what your point is. All characters will always come with a background because they're obviously not just something that poop out of existence, and that goes the same for WL. She' s royal princess. She has two brothers she looked up and probably knew them for 10+ years. She even has a very interesting snippet that tied back to one of the most bloody conflict on the continent ... People had pointed it out many time, WL could had been very interesting story if it explored her dark past more, or show more of the dynamic between the three sibling growing up, or how Gulool Ja raised them. But no, instead the writers waste all of their time on shallow affirmation nonsense.

Also, this is a topic for another day but I wouldn't really call Moenbryda a good example of a character who got enough screen time.

And who said she is a good example of that? 'Cause that wasn't what I said. I listed all of those characters to show you that your argument about screen time is essentially irrelevant.

- Esternien and Ice-Heart had comparable screen time to Wuk.

- Moenbryda had very little screen time to Wuk.

- Gosestu and Yugiri screen time falls somewhere in between the two extremes.

Yet in their own way they were all deeper, more interesting comparing to WL. Again, it's not about how much time you have, it;s about what you do with those times. And the problem with Wuk is her writer essential waste all the time they were given on stupid stuffs.

What you're doing is the same as a lot of people do when they try to excuse the writing. Like oh it's a new story, oh it's vacation .etc. while the real reason is extremely simple: the writing is bad, that's it. In fact, just look at the old job quest line and you'll see none of the "points" you're trying to make really matter.

- The DK quest line took the players by storm because of how good it was.

- The PLD and MNK quest lines are so stupid sometime they make me glad we no longer have specific job quests.

They all have similar length, the characters all have similar level of background exposure. So why the difference? Simple, the DK's quest was written by good a writer, the other quest line were not.

[StormChase]

Something to add:

• Failed to expand on Koana's family. Remember the two oddly dressed Miqote standing at the ceremony when Wuk Lamat gave her speech? They actually were important but the MSQ forgot to expand on them other than one visit to Koana's home in Wild West land, then it was off to do what Wuk Lamat wanted.
• Failed to give Koana a chance to show his technical prowess with both Solution Nine and Alexandria. Even the Scions seemed to become suddenly dumb when we arrive there. Why did we have to bring Wuk Lamat again?

Wuk Lamat had to come with us both because it was a battle between rulers and there was one last person she hadn't proven herself to (Zoraal Ja). And the Hhetsarro are quite possibly the worst example of a culture getting brushed over in the MSQ. We meet them for one or two quests so they can tell us a little about themselves and approve the train, and then that's it. Hopefully they become relevant in the patch MSQ or become one of the Allied Societies.

[honest_psycho]

Yes, we are a mentor...

I'm so sick and tired of hearing this "argument" for the hundred time.

Not only is this blatantly and demonstrably false, it has been refuted time and time again by dozens of people in dozens of threads.
The only one "who ignores arguments" is YOU.

And I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt that you actually believe what you say.
You know exactly what and what does not constitute a "mentor" and I'm not gonna waste my time to spoonfed you examples of actual mentoring so you can ignore them.

Stop it.

[StormChase]

Not even sure what your point is. All characters will always come with a background because they're obviously not just something that poop out of existence, and that goes the same for WL. She' s royal princess. She has two brothers she looked up and probably knew them for 10+ years. She even has a very interesting snippet that tied back to one of the most bloody conflict on the continent ... People had pointed it out many time, WL could had been very interesting story if it explored her dark past more, or show more of the dynamic between the three sibling growing up, or how Gulool Ja raised them. But no, instead the writers waste all of their time on shallow affirmation nonsense.

I'm saying that when you first meet her she doesn't have the same amount of experience that these other characters have. The big thing with her character is that she hasn't yet had the same kind of impact on her country as her brothers. She has a background, but she's also at an earlier stage of her journey. And that's why she needed more time to be built up.

I'm not sure how much this'll make sense but think about the Warrior of Light in A Realm Reborn. They're also at square one when they arrive in the starting city. Obviously they had some kind of life before they came here, but (unless you're playing a legacy character) as far as the game's concerned they haven't made any achievements yet. And because of that they climb up 50 levels instead of 10 like the expansions.

To be fair I do wish they showed more of her relationship with her family. It would've been interesting to see Koana act patronizing towards her at first because he wants to protect her.

[honest_psycho]

Since this thread is about the writing overall, let me give you another example that doesn't even contain Poochie.

Do you remember Ketenramm?


I seriously thought he'd turn out as some kind of traitor, but noooooo, he was just a regular adventurer who grew so weak of old age, that Zorall Ja could just knock him out for the key-stone, without ANY relevance for the overall story.
Imagine if it turned out, that he was working with Zoraal Ja the whole time.
Imagine the fight between the King and Zoraal Ja, but the last lethal blow? Done by Ketenramm!

"But what woud his motive be?" you ask?

Easy: Money and Fame

Yes, it's that simple.
Imagine if he was just an experienced and capable adventurer, who only came to Tural for the Golden City, for adventure.
He teamed up with the king to increase the chances of finding it, but couldn't enter it because the king sealed it for safety reasons. And he couldn't just steal the keys and enter the city, as long as the Kingis around.

All this years he waited for an opportunity to get rid of the King, so he could plunder the City all he wanted.

When came the birth of Zuraal Ja.
He trained him, influenced him to resent his father like a 200IQ mastermind and then used that resentment to propose an alliance with Zoraal Ja (both get rid of the King for their own reasons).

Doesn't that sound more interesting?
The overall theme of Ketenram could have been "adventurer but evil", as a foil for us, whos adventures also include saving people/doing good etc.
But Ketenram? "Nah bro, just here for da money babyyyy!"

Man, this story gets worse and worse the longer you think about it. It's amazing how garbage this is.

[Savagelf]

i think the way they could made it better is if you travel with Estinien instead WuK Lamar and you find a orphan reincarnation of child of Sphene you spend first part tried find sphene home and help you friends who are help Wuk Lamar. tell Wuk Lamar she has prove her selves to you. spare with her to get better understanding of her through fight yet watch her but not involve till her biological father village evenaulty agree help her because it may lead to more information about Sphene the child. sphene as child travel with you you tried help the gleamer then return captial to help Wuk Lamar there the child Sphene come across the AI sphene and her armies but first the child sphene order the army to stop.

this bring more part of reincarnitation and stories revolve around one those who is effect by and bring sphene character into more of interest role child sphene vs AI Sphene

it also humanised the WoL because it show her or him help and care for a child of long period

[Eyrilona]

The devs seem to have been confused themselves about Ketenramm's timeline. He was shown to be accompanying Galuul Ja Ja both twenty years ago in the events surrounding the initial discovery of the Golden City, and also eighty years ago in Galuul Ja Ja's adventuring party at the time it was originally going around the continent settling conflicts, battling the Skyruin, and generally establishing the nation of Tuliyollal. The Eorzeans hail him as the explorer who discovered the New World, and while sailors in history could be quite young, we can safely assume that if he had been something like 16-20 at the time, then he'd have at best been a junior sailor on the ship that got there first, not the guy to get credited with the whole discovery. So if he was at least twenty years old when he discovered the route to Tural, he'd have been over eighty years old when a young looking Galuf came to look at the Golden City, and over a hundred years old by the time the player visits Tural.

Roegadyn have the same life span as humans, but he doesn't look more than half his age if that is so?

Perhaps patch content will straighten things out by introducing he did not only see the Golden City, but discovered the Fountain of Youth as well? ( And then used its water to... grow a cabbage? The matter of Ketenramm's cabbage deserves to be explored! )