DT's Writing: What Could've Been Better

[Mondschnee]

Honestly there's so much more one could add to your list. And I feel bad about this, but I feel like this needs to be pointed out. I don't want something like this to happen again.


- There's not once a doubt that Wuk Lamat becomes Dawnservant, making the first half feel rather predictable and boring
- The narrative never challenges itself, not in the first half, nor in the second. Ethical questions in the last zone are brushed off completely because the narrative needs us to feel good about it, just as much as we are never able to challenge Wuk Lamat's naive world view because the story needs us to support her
- no, we are not a mentor and no, Wuk Lamat does not have any notable character development because she wasn't allowed to have true flaws in the first place (the flaws that she has are not intentional)
- characters are collectively incompetent all of a sudden, some of the worst moments were for example when we let Wuk Lamat get abducted (because the story needed this to happen), trusting a complete stranger?? and watching Gulool Ja Ja die after Zoraal Ja gets resurrected (no the honor argument doesn't count), Ketenramm losing the keystones because apparently he doesn't know how to hide valuable things
- Actually competent characters on the other hand are "proven wrong", like Erenville, who questioned Wuk Lamat's decision to hold a festival instead of solving the reed problem, and she's rewarded for her weird priorities
- Character writing was inconsistent. Examples: Bakool Ja Ja's sudden change of heart, Wuk Lamat emphasizing that "she wants to know" but doesn't care about Zoraal Ja at all. She cares more about the red Yok Huy (who attack her!!!) than about her own brother.
- The story struggles to gain momentum. The moment we think we can move on to another zone, we're being held back (examples: Wuk Lamat's abduction, not being able to enter the golden city, visiting Erenville's home but then bubble appears, etc.)
- there's no build up to big moments, it's always a really flat suspense curve with a major spike
- Moments don't happen naturally, the writing is full of convenience. Events feel like they happen because they *have* to, not because of organic reasons. For example, Bakool Ja Ja being able to release Valigarmanda because *checks notes* only two headed Mamool Ja can cast two strong fire spells at once???
- the writing overall was immature, very tropey, contrived and predictable
- the dialogue quality was notably worse than in previous expansions

And the sad thing is, I could go on if I wanted to...

[Tunda]

If we got this guy for expansion length story I would be happy

[Bitmoar]

Wuk Lamat learning to choose love and peace and optimism and tacos not out of naivety but in the face of deep loss is a great potential character arc. It’s a shame she didn’t get it, but there was apparently already too much happening to take the time to treat the expansion’s ‘main character’ as an actual person experiencing and responding to the events happening to them.

Her basically non-reaction to learning who her real father is doesn't get talked about enough. That could have been a huge emotional character building moment. Instead she stares blankly and is immediately ready to move on to the next problem to defeat with peace and happiness.

[StormChase]

Unironically, I think more combat in the MSQ would have helped the writing.

First, imagine if we'd gotten to spar with Wuk Lamat every so often as we progressed through MSQ. This would also have helped establish characterization for her and the mentorship we're supposed to have for her. Then when we get to the Wuk Lamat-vs-Bakool Ja Ja solo duty in Yak T'el it would be like the culmination of all those fights.

Then there's the invasion of Tuliyollal. We should have fought our way through the streets, arrived at the throne room to find Zoraal Ja standing over Gulool Ja Ja's lifeless body, and been incapacitated by a flashback to what just happened as he walked off.

Finally, switching off the terminals in Living Memory was... really dull. Shouldn't there have been some security? Literally just spawn a boss at each one that we have to DPS down.

Oh yeah, I agree. That definitely would've helped.

[StormChase]

Her basically non-reaction to learning who her real father is doesn't get talked about enough. That could have been a huge emotional character building moment. Instead she stares blankly and is immediately ready to move on to the next problem to defeat with peace and happiness.

If the writers are smart they'll use that to establish more of a connection with Krile in the patches. She said she didn't care who her biological parents were but it became increasingly apparent she actually did. Robor and Alayla were already dead while Hunmu Rruk is still alive. How will this affect their relationship?

[Hallarem]

Despite her weird power ups and feats (lets not talk about Dynamis, it's a dumb concept and should be dead and buried)

I find it borderline impossible for Wuk Lamat to have lived in a culturally diverse city like that and not having any idea how the cultures in Tural are. It's clear "Lets insert a "flaw" here so we can have a journey in the MSQ for her" while it makes logically no sense. These writers are horrible.

[StormChase]

- characters are collectively incompetent all of a sudden, some of the worst moments were for example when we let Wuk Lamat get abducted (because the story needed this to happen), trusting a complete stranger?? and watching Gulool Ja Ja die after Zoraal Ja gets resurrected (no the honor argument doesn't count), Ketenramm losing the keystones because apparently he doesn't know how to hide valuable things
- Actually competent characters on the other hand are "proven wrong", like Erenville, who questioned Wuk Lamat's decision to hold a festival instead of solving the reed problem, and she's rewarded for her weird priorities
- Character writing was inconsistent. Examples: Bakool Ja Ja's sudden change of heart, Wuk Lamat emphasizing that "she wants to know" but doesn't care about Zoraal Ja at all. She cares more about the red Yok Huy (who attack her!!!) than about her own brother.
- The story struggles to gain momentum. The moment we think we can move on to another zone, we're being held back (examples: Wuk Lamat's abduction, not being able to enter the golden city, visiting Erenville's home but then bubble appears, etc.)
- there's no build up to big moments, it's always a really flat suspense curve with a major spike
- Moments don't happen naturally, the writing is full of convenience. Events feel like they happen because they *have* to, not because of organic reasons. For example, Bakool Ja Ja being able to release Valigarmanda because *checks notes* only two headed Mamool Ja can cast two strong fire spells at once???
- the writing overall was immature, very tropey, contrived and predictable
- the dialogue quality was notably worse than in previous expansions

And the sad thing is, I could go on if I wanted to...

To be fair, Wuk Lamat wasn't as determined to understand Zoraal Ja as she was Bakool Ja Ja and the Yok Huy guy because he killed her dad and a bunch of her countrymen. And even though Sphene was also in on it, she'd realized how similar they were as people and wanted to try reaching her through that, even if it didn't work in the end. With Zoraal Ja she realized their similarities too late.

I didn't bring this up in the first post because it might've gone past the character limit, but while it's not unique to Dawntrail (there are plenty scenes throughout the game where the WOL just stands there while an NPC gets seriously hurt or killed), the forced incompetence was definitely a problem. Wuk Lamat being too trusting makes sense, but it's hard to believe everyone else would let her go off with a stranger. I think the writers did stuff like that because they wouldn't have time to progress the plot the way they wanted to without it. Easier to have nobody stop her than come up with a better reason why she got abducted.

[CuteBucket]

We've already had many threads that have beaten to death the topic of Wuk Lamat's character the problems with her. I want instead to focus on another character who also contributed heavily to my disdain for this story: Sphene.

Sphene could have been interesting! The concept is interesting! A dead queen's memories are uploaded into a computer, and with these memories acting as some kind of "prime directive" for the computer, she seeks to do ANYTHING to protect those categorized as "her people," even the dead ones. They could have done something really creepy with Sphene. Like if GLADOS from Portal had the emotional capacity of a 16 year old girl who wanted to "collect" everyone inside her dome where she could keep them "safe" and keep playing The Sims with the memories of the dead forever. But instead, the game spends all this time in the last two zones and Solution 9 trying to convince us that she's not just a computer program, she's a real person we can and should befriend and come to understand and reason with. She a super nice Queen and everyone loves her! What does she do to earn the love and adoration of her citizens? She...shows up and talks to them and remembers their names and occupations, a thing that would take no effort for a computer program. Does she do anything to improve their lives and their living situations and the economy? No! She gave all that power to Zoraal Ja and lets him walk all over her people. But then we learn that she could have overridden this at any point, she just didn't want to because she found him useful. But we need to be friends and understand her!! Yes she signed off on the assault on Tulliyolal but she was sad about it!

And then after the master computer supposedly "deleted" all of the memories of Queen Sphene and we can finally just go beat up this stupid rogue AI trying to destroy all the Shards and the Source by eating up all the aether, WUK LAMAT has to come in and use the Power of Friendship(tm) through the bonds they made (what bonds??) and that MAGICALLY UN-DELETED ALL OF SPHENE'S DATA so that she could be "redeemed" because she realized she did a bad thing and her and Wuk can have a tearful goodbye.I half expected Wuk Lamat to go full Care Bears and call upon the audience to chant "We believe in you, Sphene! Don't give up!"

Where is WoL for all of this? Who knows, the camera hasn't show them in a while. Probably already booted out of cyberspace and vomiting in some corner of Living Memory.

[Catwho]

That's not a fair comparison because Elidibus had been a part of the plot since 2.1 and the big payoff was in 5.3. Wuk Lamat's been a part of the plot since 6.55. It's because Elidibus' story had more time to be spread out that they could focus on other things too. If Elidibus suddenly appeared much later I don't think you would've seen him the same way.

This was my big critique. New characters besides the Scions in the spotlight are fine, but they need time to cook for us to care about them. I wanted to learn more about Erenville because I've known him for two and a half years. I knew Wuk Lamat for less than six months and that wasn't enough time to build up any more interest about her character.

[Striker44]

Despite her weird power ups and feats (lets not talk about Dynamis, it's a dumb concept and should be dead and buried)

I find it borderline impossible for Wuk Lamat to have lived in a culturally diverse city like that and not having any idea how the cultures in Tural are. It's clear "Lets insert a "flaw" here so we can have a journey in the MSQ for her" while it makes logically no sense. These writers are horrible.

It makes sense, because while Tuliyollal itself is culturally diverse, only certain segments of each individual culture that comprises it actually moved to the capital. It's perhaps best represented with the Mamool Ja, where it was specifically the more "liberal" members of its society that went to Tuliyollal while the "conservative" side stayed in Mamook. If you only had the chance to talk to hippies from the 1960's, would that give you an accurate representation of the entirety of American culture? (Or replace hippies with any one particular group - farmers, Floridians, the West Coast, etc..) Heck, even if you surveyed just general Americans in a metropolitan area, how many would have deep knowledge of American history? I find it very logical that Wuk Lumat could end up actually knowing very little about the cultures in Tural by only interacting with those who specifically came to Tuliyollal.

- There's not once a doubt that Wuk Lamat becomes Dawnservant, making the first half feel rather predictable and boring

This is true in any FF game. Did people playing FFVI ever think the party wouldn't actually get back together and defeat Kefka after he unleashed the statues? Did people playing FFX ever think the party wouldn't eventually defeat Sin? I could go on and on there.

- no, we are not a mentor and no, Wuk Lamat does not have any notable character development because she wasn't allowed to have true flaws in the first place (the flaws that she has are not intentional)

Yes, we are a mentor, and Wuk Lumat goes from believing the empathy she has is worthless to realizing it's a key part of what makes her father a good ruler (among many other things). She is definitely intentionally flawed. You not liking it doesn't make it any less factual.

watching Gulool Ja Ja die after Zoraal Ja gets resurrected (no the honor argument doesn't count)

Aside from the logical fallacy of "just ignore anything that refutes my argument", the other key piece is us at that point not knowing anything about what Zoraal Ja's power can do. We do know that he just mincemeat out of someone who had just beaten him and who had fought both us and Estinien to a draw. Aside from the shock of the moment, we have no clue how powerful he really might be at that moment.

Her basically non-reaction to learning who her real father is doesn't get talked about enough. That could have been a huge emotional character building moment. Instead she stares blankly and is immediately ready to move on to the next problem to defeat with peace and happiness.

Which is a very real potential reaction. Some people who are adopted are very interested in learning about their birth parents and would be deeply moved. Others feel no real connection to them at all and don't really react if they ever "find out" who their birth parents are. I'm really not sure in this case how that could have "built" any of WL's character.

I didn't bother addressing the rest because they amount to no more than pure personal opinions.