Level Sync feels worse every expansion

[Nestama]

If they were to allow us to use all skills in low level dungeons, SE would need to heavily nerf them (including the start of the 1-2-3 rotation) in the level sync as well (like, more than half off the potency just to match the level cap potency or whatever). Primarily just so things don't die too fast. Gotta let the sprouts enjoy something in old content as they level up, you know?

[Mapleine]

I think I've complained about Level Sync about a dozen times since ARR. It's really one of the worst pieces of design and actively makes me avoid portions of the game.

I get they don't want to fully trvialize the game content with how little there is and how rushing to the end won't get you a lot more. That's a utilitarian take but the fact is that it's now reaching the boiling point on tedium. If they insist on keeping this system, they should redo the ability stack and get it largely wrapped up by ARR's end. If a new reward system is needed for later leveling, so be it.


My problem is that I've played FF16, so I pretty much just have no hope for future changes anymore after watching them copy/paste every problem this game has into a brand new single player game.

[Atreus]

FATE synching is no different from any sync in duties. It will remove all the skills that are above level and sync level and stats the same way.

.. yes that is how it works lol. I'm talking about the scaling that happens due to number of people in the zone.

[Mikey_R]

I've thought about how FATEs work and how they scale up and I can't help but wonder if that scaling can be applied to other content when higher-level players are present.

Wouldn't work and that is due to the fact it scales off of number of players rather than strength of players.

Dungeons are fixed at 4 players, with a minimum level/ilevel to enter. This means, if you happen to have a high level, player in your low level party, the mobs get scaled to somewhere between the extremes, meaning your low levels players are contributing nothing, and your high level player is dominating everything.

[Akonyl]

I really don't get why they just don't:

1) Check the expected dps of a job at X level, at each level a dungeon's unlocked at
2) Calculate the expected damage at each level cap (70, 80, 90, 100, etc) per job
3) Make a buff per job where it nerfs your damage appropriately based on how far you're jumping back level-wise

This would basically require one "base" reading per job per expansion, with minor adjustments besides. It wouldn't be sufficient for high-end content like savage/ult (which require tighter tuning), but wrt duty roulettes it'd be a nice way to keep balance somewhat in-line without having to remove player abilities.

[Hasrat]

I really don't get why they just don't:

1) Check the expected dps of a job at X level, at each level a dungeon's unlocked at

Well, your first mistake here is only looking at dps. There are more variables at play than simply how much damage a player can do.

And, more importantly, this sets a fixed expectation. See, most low-stress (casual) content is completely clearable while half-assing your job, no matter your role. That's just how it's tuned. You don't need to be rolling a perfect rotation. You just gotta sorta try.

And here everybody is, wanting their high level skills, "just nerf our potencies," and, at a glance, that sounds perfectly reasonable.

But, see, half-assing your end-game rotation is still significantly more potency-to-be-nerfed than synced abilities. Which means it's not as simple as just knocking your potency down, it's gotta be buried. Now, you gotta actually try a little harder just to keep up with a synced player. "Ok, great, that's fine, we're asking for our whole rotation."

Sure. And what about the players that don't try a little harder? Just for the sake of having your whole rotation, everyone's potency has been nerfed to the ground. And now you get grouped with someone that doesn't want to try any harder, they're just here to half-ass it, as the dungeon is designed to allow for, and now it's going to take you twice as long to get through. All because you had to have all your skills.

This is all to say nothing of the monstrous amount of work to calculate and calibrate every job at damn near every level, for every dungeon, and do it every single time they adjust anything. Versus, y'know, letting the sync feature take care of all of that without any extra hassle.

[Akonyl]

Well, your first mistake here is only looking at dps. There are more variables at play than simply how much damage a player can do.

DPS is the vast majority of what's actually important when it comes to being synced down into low-level content, especially for anyone who isn't the tank.

Sure. And what about the players that don't try a little harder? Just for the sake of having your whole rotation, everyone's potency has been nerfed to the ground. And now you get grouped with someone that doesn't want to try any harder, they're just here to half-ass it, as the dungeon is designed to allow for, and now it's going to take you twice as long to get through. All because you had to have all your skills.

Max-level players should absolutely be expected to try a little harder, even if they "don't want to". If some level 20 bard only has to press 2 buttons in their AOE rotation to hit the same DPS I do in Sastasha while I'm doing a full level 100 song rotation I am entirely for it.

Saying "but what if someone doesn't want to try to play the game?" is meaningless because that already happens in Experts. People already don't push buttons if they don't want to, that won't be a uniquely Leveling Roulette thing if Leveling Roulette suddenly asks max level players to push more buttons.

[ovIm]

Sure. And what about the players that don't try a little harder? Just for the sake of having your whole rotation, everyone's potency has been nerfed to the ground..

Add in a toggle "use old level sync", I'd say, even though I fundamentally agree with Akonyl that higher level players can be expected to try a little harder. When reaching a certain level of play, the game should encourage you to use all your skills.

[Mikey_R]

The problem with balancing around average DPS is you have higher highs and lower lows. The higher you level, the more access you have to higher potency actions, which just pushes damage higher and higher.

To illustrate this, PLD has access to 1 AoE at level 15, Total Eclipse, which does 100 potency on every enemy hit. By level 80, we have access to Confiteor, which is 1000 potency, it does 10 times the damage of Total Eclipse, 1 GCD of Confiteor is equivalent to 10 GCDs of Total Eclipse. You cannot really scale this effectively without it either being either insanely strong or having Total Eclipse being really weak, this is before we even look at the rest of the blade combo, which includes another 1000 potency is Blade of Valor and Blade of Honor, which also happens to be an oGCD.

Which then brings up oGCDs. How do you balance them? It is free extra damage that is another layer you have to work around.

How about those actions that get upgraded to AoE? PLD has 2 in Expiacion and Imperator, again, free extra damage.

How about healing kits? Low level healers have to rely on the GCD to heal, whilst high level healers rely on oGCDs, leaving more GCDs for more damage and you cannot really 'estimate' the amount of healing you are going to do on the GCD to balance DPS, because that is also reliant on the tanks defensives, which brings us nicely onto;

Tank defensives. Holy Sheltron has a heal, PLD's magic, has heals, this just forces healers in lower level content to ignore healing even more, not to mention just the upgraded defensives in general. Sentinel to Guardian? That is a spicy barrier which no low level mob is going to be able to break through.

There are way too many hurdles to get through to make it worth investing in. They would be better off making the low level kits more engaging and making more traits like 'melee mastery' to just increase the potencies of a large number of actions at the same time. The new player experience matters and this is a better way to do it than allowing high level players to just curb stomp everything in one hit.

[Valence]

Sometimes I kinda wish they kept each expansion's kits and systems within their own expansion, but I do understand that this wouldn't work well within a leveling progression system.