Viper Hunter's/Swiftskin's Den buttons

[Veralann]

Hi forums, first time making a forum post! I tried searching for this and didn't see it mentioned, so I wanted to post a suggestion: I find it a little weird that despite how all of the ogcds for Viper work, Hunter's Den and Swiftskin's Den are completely distinct keybinds from their single target equivalents. I'd like to propose that they are merged so they function like Twinfang, Twinblood, and Serpent's Tail. The reason is that using any other melee weaponskill, including Vicewinder in particular, removes the ability to use the Den weaponskills - meaning, you can't have both of them active at once which makes the separate keybinds seem kind of jarring in contrast to the rest of the job. Thank you!

[ovIm]

Please no, the job has already been defanged, there is no need to make it even simpler at this point.

you almost never mix single target and AoE scenarios, I recommend separating skillbars by AoE and Single Target if you are having trouble putting everything in one, and then switching the bar based on the amount of enemies nearby.

[LisseyCrowe]

Please no, the job has already been defanged, there is no need to make it even simpler at this point.

you almost never mix single target and AoE scenarios, I recommend separating skillbars by AoE and Single Target if you are having trouble putting everything in one, and then switching the bar based on the amount of enemies nearby.

Tbh his suggestion literally changes nothing, and that's coming from someone who wants the job to be reverted. Vicewinder only lets you use the single procs, and Vicepit the AoE, it'd be no different than how the other proc skills of Viper work.

That said, 2 bars is still valid advice. On mouse-keyboard Viper plays incredibly smoothly with a macro that swaps between a single target hotbar and a multi-target one, letting you get away with very little keybinds to memorize.

[jonimated]

As a controller player this change would do nothing for me. I would just duplicate the current single target buttons and move them over to where the AoE buttons are now. It's how I have Twinfang, Twinblood, and Serpent's Tail set up right now. All 3 buttons are on each "side" of the controller hotbar.

Honestly I imagine the devs didn't want to take the 2 buttons off the Viper action page. The job already has so few bespoke buttons removing 2 more may have been a step too far. The fact that I even have the controller space to duplicate 3 buttons is a little silly to me.

It's possible this is a change they could get in 8.0 or 9.0 when the job gets more abilities at add to the hotbar.

[Ramiee]

Actually I take back what I said about no one asking for the dot to be removed. If people want Viper to have less buttons then god people must of complained about the dot.

[Iscah]

As a controller player this change would do nothing for me. I would just duplicate the current single target buttons and move them over to where the AoE buttons are now. It's how I have Twinfang, Twinblood, and Serpent's Tail set up right now. All 3 buttons are on each "side" of the controller hotbar.

I also play on controller and I would find this change helpful.

Right now I have all the parallel single-target and multi-target skills mapped out in equal positions on hotbars 1 (default) and 3 (double-tap). From either of those hotbars I can switch to hotbar 2 (R2-L2) where I have laid out the "vice skills" that are used in both single and multi-target combat – but single-target gets to sit naturally on the four right-side buttons while multi-target has to be awkwardly wedged over on the left-side buttons that require me to take my thumb off the joystick to use.

On the other hand, I don't get any benefit out of the post-combo finisher skill being merged between single and multi-target, because I have that one duplicated between bars 1 and 3 anyway.

I think it makes sense to allow the merging of all the parallel skills and let people choose which ones they want to overlap and which ones they want to spread out duplicates where it feels comfortable to them.

[jonimated]

Right now I have all the parallel single-target and multi-target skills mapped out in equal positions on hotbars 1 (default) and 3 (double-tap). From either of those hotbars I can switch to hotbar 2 (R2-L2) where I have laid out the "vice skills" that are used in both single and multi-target combat – but single-target gets to sit naturally on the four right-side buttons while multi-target has to be awkwardly wedged over on the left-side buttons that require me to take my thumb off the joystick to use.

Far be it for me to question how anyone has their buttons laid out. Whatever feels more comfortable for you. I'm just curious though, why did you choose to do the layout this way? Unless I'm misunderstanding something it sounds like you're not using the L2 side of the hotbars at all? Viper doesn't even have enough buttons to fill 2 hotbars, let alone 3.

The Viper basic combos and Vicewinder combos for both single target and AoE use identical button layouts, so they can be completely mirrored between the L2 and R2 sides of the hotbars. The way I have my controller mapped is the R2 face buttons (Square, Circle, Cross, Triangle on Playstation) have the basic combo as well as Vicewinder and Serpent's tail. Then R2-L2 face buttons have all 4 Vicewinder follow-up, GCDs and oGCDs. My L2 and L2-R2 hotbars are set up in an identical way just using the AoE variants, and duplicating abilities where applicable. When switching between single target and AoE abilities I'm literally pressing the exact same buttons to execute combos for both, just switching up whether I press R2 or L2.

If I've misunderstood what you're saying I'm sorry, and you can just ignore everything I said. If not though consider activating and using the L2 side of your hotbars. With most jobs, and Viper especially, you will never need to use the cumbersome double-tap third hotbar. You can also reserve the d-pad inputs for things like buffs and situational abilities. Things you don't press often.

[Iscah]

Far be it from me to question how anyone has their buttons laid out. Whatever feels more comfortable for you. I'm just curious though, why did you choose to do the layout this way? Unless I'm misunderstanding something it sounds like you're not using the L2 side of the hotbars at all? Viper doesn't even have enough buttons to fill 2 hotbars, let alone 3.

All of my layouts are R2-heavy for actual combat, L2 for buffs, shields and situational skills.

Having the two main layouts on bar 1 and bar 3 means that I hit R2 at the beginning of combat (with or without double-tap) and mostly just keep holding it, and to go into hotbar 2 I just press L2 without letting go of R2.

Alternately I could put AOE on the R2-L2 bar (which would allow for more seamless flicking back and forth between single and multi-target hits, as viper allows) and vice skills on L2-R2, which is similar to my layout for red mage, but that doesn't solve the problem of the AOE vice skills being separate buttons that have to go in a non-optimal position.