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  1. #1
    Player
    OdinelStarrei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    363
    Character
    Odinel Starrei
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    I don't really care if Wuk Lamat or anyone else dealt the final blow or something like that. It doesn't change the fact we spent about 10 minutes weakening it, or alternatively holding it off.

    Was anyone upset that Estinien got the final blow on Nidhogg in The Aery? I wasn't - that was exactly what I wanted to happen. I didn't need anymore accolades at that point. Estinien had worked his whole life for that moment.
    This is a bad whataboutism, Jeeqbit. You're better than this.

    Estinien taking care of his lifelong nemesis is critical to not only his personal development as a character, but it also is the catalyst for the events of HW at Azys La and 3.3 to even happen. Estinien is a character who is figuratively and literally consumed by vengeance until he is shown a different path by our party during the events leading up to the Aery. Had he still been the same character, I wager he would have been entirely unable to resist Nidhogg's influence whatsoever. Estinien doesn't even kill Nidhogg in the gameplay fight, something he participates in, he kills him in cutscene where he does what Dragoons do. Take the fight into the sky, and brings him down. It's Estinien who takes Nidhogg's eyes, completes the set, and starts turning all the gears for the end of the Dragonsong War. It's BECAUSE Estinien worked his entire life to see Nidhogg laid low that makes this our win as the WoL proving their worth as a ward of Count Fortemps, and for Estinien as the Azure Dragoon, and putting his family to rest feel satisfying outside of bad guy is dead now. Even after he is taken over by Nidhogg and almost kills everyone he has begun to start caring about, he names his spear "Nidhogg" in remembrance, in respect, and in, what I feel, is regret over the actions that caused his madness. Now "Nidhogg" protects Etheirys, like the original Nidhogg was always supposed to. It's many culminations and combinations of Dragon history, Ishgardian history, and personal history that tie that knot. Don't put Wuk Lumat in that kind of legacy, because she hasn't earned it.

    You're not using the more relevant example, which is Eden 8 with Ryne and Gaia. Gaia tapping into Ascian powers to warp into the arena makes narrative sense. Gaia wanting to save Ryne makes narrative sense. Gaia proceeded to save our lives makes both narrative, and gameplay sense, as we have been shown both in gameplay through Eden 2 and in cutscenes the extent of her time manipulation powers. It makes thematic sense for Shadowbringers as a whole, that Light, friendship, and determination is not enough, sometimes Darkness is required to save the Light. Even then, Gaia still needs us as players to break the ice, pun intended. But this act alone makes Gaia a hero in her own right, even if she is totally insufferable, even if she doesn't understand all the stakes involved, she still put her life on the line for the party, plus the alternative is a verifiable Flood of Light and that's no good, even she understands that. Putting Hydalaen-Ryne in ice that resembles the Mothercrystal needing to broken by an not-Ascian? Obvious, yes, but thematically appropriate. The key point I'm trying to make here is that it doesn't feel forced and entirely contrived. There was a little build up, at least.

    It's not about getting "accolades" or whatever. I don't need any more medals. What Wuk Lumat does is a kill steal, and it's unsatisfying. Wuk Lumat giving me, the Warrior of Light, her personal buff, instead of my personal buff of Brilliant Conviction is a narrative slap in the face. I have never felt inspired by Wuk Lumat once. I've known her for like what, two months max, after dealing with her talking over Krile, dragging me all over Tural, getting kidnapped, and whining to me every time we need to take a mode of transportation? Sphene could have done another Absolute Authority. I don't have a problem really that she breaks out of her science prison or whatever. But maybe, instead, we get a narrative moment in gameplay, where because Sphene says that great "Are you still alive?" line a few extra times in the same tone, overriding the already set in place, and broken, safeguards, and just starts stacking damage ups during the cast. I'm talking Are you still alive? +1 Are you still alive? +3 Are you still alive? +9 Are you still alive? +16 Commencing. BINDS THE PARTY so you can't LB3. THEN Wuk Lumat busts in, Tank LBs herself because we can't, she can even throw out the "I will protect my people's happiness" right back at Sphene to tie that theme together as Queens/Protectors of their people, and she saves the group. Afterwards, she can either fight with us a bit, or get punched out of reality again when Sphene restores critical processes to re-jail her and returns to her original appearance, and in that lapse in strength, she is defeated. Anything but Wuk Lumat doing a Decimate that does more damage than the entire party combined. It's like 10% or something on a single attack on a final boss, come on. I have literally been in instances where the entire party is dead and the tanks+Wuk Lumat kill the boss because Wuk Lumat is so strong and tanks can't die to her suddenly pathetic attacks.

    She didn't earn this, and they don't do anything interesting after the moment either, the fight gets substantially worse. Developers literally just gave her god powers for one instance. How is the same jobber who in the previous dungeon could fall over if you didn't heal them as a Warrior be the same character next instance punching a Elder Primal level threat who can travel/terraform dimensions right in the face no problem? Remember when we played as Estinien and we fought Proto-Ultima and his high-tier Dragoon powers actually felt earned? Or when G'raha Tia pulls a clutch summon at the end of Shadowbringers and we were all like "yeah that makes sense, he's been working on this spell for like five years at this point." Outside of doing nothing, which actually would have been better, they choose the most jarring way to bookend this expansion, and it pulled me personally, right out of the experience of an otherwise really good fight.


    EDIT: Wait, this tangent is disrespectful of the original topic. Yes, this direction is not great. If someone gives me an appetizer that is trash, I'm not going to hold my breath for the main course. I'd be more likely to hold my nose. You can tell good stories in 3 hours, or 300 hours. I'm no stranger to slow world-building, I live for it, if anything (Trails in the Sky trilogy anyone? That entire first game is just character/world building). This is juvenile. It's like, my time is being wasted on purpose or something.
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    Last edited by OdinelStarrei; 09-03-2024 at 11:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestaRosa View Post
    this is my opinion. don't have share my opinion. don't have like my opinion. but know nothing you say or do is gonna make me change my opinion. if don't like that tough.