I'm Frustrated with FFXIV's New Direction

[Supersnow845]

Yeah, Estinien had the benefit of an entire base Heavensward expansion plus a bit of ARR Dragoon quests to build up that simmering long-term animosity between himself and Nidhogg, so when you finally get to that moment where he can land the killing blow, it's like "all you, pal, this is yours." But with Sphene, we don't even get to meet her until halfway through the expansion, and on top of that there's nowhere near enough time for them to establish a believable connective tissue to Wuk Lamat while we are also suspicious as hell of her at the same time. It just makes it look like Wuk is desperate to make this new leader her friend, when Sphene is really not giving back as much friendliness as Wuk is giving her. Wuk is openly friendly and Sphene has a facade of charm while still holding her cards very close to her chest; these are not the same things, and it makes for a very lopsided "friendship." So when Wuk yells for Sphene and keeps trying to reason with her, I couldn't gel with any of that because you know behind all of that Sphene will vaporize everyone in front of her if it means her people get to live a few days longer.

They intentionally made a scene where sphene refused to tell erenville what happened to cauchia right to his face which was the most blatantly obvious representation that her whole “charming facade” was a crock of shit and then they still wanted us to believe that Sphene and Wuk were forcing some sort of actual bond when they did the final scene

[PercibelTheren]

They intentionally made a scene where sphene refused to tell erenville what happened to cauchia right to his face which was the most blatantly obvious representation that her whole “charming facade” was a crock of shit and then they still wanted us to believe that Sphene and Wuk were forcing some sort of actual bond when they did the final scene

This is a big part of why I found Dawntrail so frustrating. The only way Sphene could have been more obvious would be if she held a giant neon sign saying "I'm this expansion's villain, ask me how".

My ability to suspend my disbelief is pretty strong but I really, REALLY don't like it when the game makes my WoL an idiot. We have been betrayed multiple times. No reasonable person would be this on board with Sphene. Like...you know it's bad when Alisae, of all people, is being the voice of reason.

[CamuiKushi]

Was anyone upset that Estinien got the final blow on Nidhogg in The Aery? I wasn't - that was exactly what I wanted to happen. I didn't need anymore accolades at that point. Estinien had worked his whole life for that moment.

This is an incredibly crucial point that I think the Wuk Lamat defenders keep forgetting: we've been a side character before. This isn't a new thing. Other people have had the limelight and not copped anywhere near as much flak as Wuk Lamat.

It's how she's written that's the problem, not that she's the protagonist of the expansion.

[Daralii]

This is an incredibly crucial point that I think the Wuk Lamat defenders keep forgetting: we've been a side character before. This isn't a new thing. Other people have had the limelight and not copped anywhere near as much flak as Wuk Lamat.

It's how she's written that's the problem, not that she's the protagonist of the expansion.

Our presence didn't feel completely pointless for HW, especially before the Aery got revised and we had to protect Estinien while he used the eye to weaken Nidhogg. It felt pointless for very large swathes of DT, both in story and gameplay.

[ovIm]

This is an incredibly crucial point that I think the Wuk Lamat defenders keep forgetting: we've been a side character before. This isn't a new thing. Other people have had the limelight and not copped anywhere near as much flak as Wuk Lamat.

It's how she's written that's the problem, not that she's the protagonist of the expansion.

In regards to the Queen Eternal fight however, things are a bit different.
During the Aery, we storm it together with Estinien, and are very much on equal footing here. Also, the Aery is a mid expansion leveling dungeon, not the grand final fight.

Before the Queen Eternal fight, Queen Eternal kicks out WL and Krile, stating that we are the most dangerous thing and that we need to be exterminated. Only for us to be overwhelmed and saved by WL? This feels like blatant "Wuk Lamat Mary Sue-ism" by the writers, even accompanied with that dreadful debuff how she is inspiring you, and with WL doing so much more damage than the rest of the party.

Personally, I don't think Wuk Lamat is a bad character overall. She just suffers from the bad writing (like pretty much most of the cast on this expansion) that, in this case, constantly puts her on a pedestal, to the detriment of other characters, that has created a lot of resentment.

[Carin-Eri]

In regards to the Queen Eternal fight however, things are a bit different.
During the Aery, we storm it together with Estinien, and are very much on equal footing here. Also, the Aery is a mid expansion leveling dungeon, not the grand final fight.

Before the Queen Eternal fight, Queen Eternal kicks out WL and Krile, stating that we are the most dangerous thing and that we need to be exterminated. Only for us to be overwhelmed and saved by WL? This feels like blatant "Wuk Lamat Mary Sue-ism" by the writers, even accompanied with that dreadful debuff how she is inspiring you, and with WL doing so much more damage than the rest of the party.

Personally, I don't think Wuk Lamat is a bad character overall. She just suffers from the bad writing (like pretty much most of the cast on this expansion) that, in this case, constantly puts her on a pedestal, to the detriment of other characters, that has created a lot of resentment.

Agreed - whilst I'd tolerated her throughout the story, this moment irritated me no end.

There is absolutely NO point in having the big bad say "You are the single greatest threat" if you're going to completely contradict that by dumping a completely unnecessary 'rescue' scene on us.
It felt like they were trying to pull a Zenos (when he appeared to assist us to battle Endsinger) but didn't quite understand why it worked in that scenario.

[Mondschnee]

It felt like they were trying to pull a Zenos (when he appeared to assist us to battle Endsigner) but didn't quite understand why it worked in that scenario.

^^^
I felt this during Dawntrail a lot.
They kept referencing beloved moments/characters from previous expansion without understanding why these moments worked in the first place, making these moments feel cheap. I didn't like that at all.

Yoshi-P said before Endwalker was released that they didn't want to try and make a second Shadowbringers, they wanted to try and make Endwalker its own.
Where was that ambition in Dawntrail?

[honest_psycho]

This is an incredibly crucial point that I think the Wuk Lamat defenders keep forgetting: we've been a side character before. This isn't a new thing. Other people have had the limelight and not copped anywhere near as much flak as Wuk Lamat.

It's how she's written that's the problem, not that she's the protagonist of the expansion.

Not only do some of them forget, some of them deliberately ignore these facts and sidestep that arguments with essays about what Wuk Lamat's story-arc is supposed to be, implying we are all idiots.

This begs the question of WHY they defend this MSQ so much. It can't be just 'bad taste'.

[SerenityIsBae]

I don't really care if Wuk Lamat or anyone else dealt the final blow or something like that. It doesn't change the fact we spent about 10 minutes weakening it, or alternatively holding it off.

Was anyone upset that Estinien got the final blow on Nidhogg in The Aery? I wasn't - that was exactly what I wanted to happen. I didn't need anymore accolades at that point. Estinien had worked his whole life for that moment.

The difference between that and this is that Estinien had a personal score to settle with nidhogg built up over years of his life. Wuk Lamat just met Sphene earlier today.
Also, The Aery isn't the final fight of the expansion against the big bad. A better parallel would be The Final Steps of Faith and we very much handle that fight alone.