I'm Frustrated with FFXIV's New Direction

[Bonoki]

I recently read the interview posted on JPGames, and I have a few thoughts to share.

https://jpgames.de/2024/09/final-fan...-an-wuk-lamat/

First and foremost, I don't want to be relegated to a supporting character. The Warrior of Light should remain the narrative's main focus. I sincerely hope the development team takes this feedback to heart. We've learned about other characters and cultures while keeping the Warrior of Light at the forefront for several expansions now. Why change a formula that has been successful and beloved by the player base? You can't condition players to be the story's focal point for so long and then abruptly shift us to the background because of a creative slump. The writers are running out of ideas, and this pivot isn't the solution.

Additionally, I want to provide separate feedback regarding Tural and its portrayal in the latest expansion. Frankly, I'm not interested in Tural's people or its culture. The world-building this time around hasn't resonated with me at all. I find myself longing to return to the familiar lands of Eorzea, Garlemald, and Othard. The New World's attempt to showcase multiple cultures feels cluttered and disjointed; they overshadow one another rather than create a cohesive narrative. I understand the team has put tremendous effort into this, and I respect that, but I have to be honest—I don't feel any connection to the societies in Tural. The focus seems to have shifted to superficial elements, like fictional food culture that lacks relevance to our experience as players. I recall reading in another interview that Latin America was chosen as an inspiration because the community wanted tacos. Is that seriously the justification for an entire expansion's theme? I'm left feeling confused and disappointed by this direction.

[Alice_Rivers]

When it comes to the story of 7.0: It‘s not that Wuk Lamat is the hero of the story, but when we look at the actual hero of the story, it‘s the Warrior of Light – the player character.

And yet, at the end of the expansion story, who is it forces their way in to defeat the big bad? Whose music is it playing when the big bad is defeated? Whose moment is it? The answer to all of these questions is the same and it's not "the actual hero of the story".

[jameseoakes]

And yet, at the end of the expansion story, who is it forces their way in to defeat the big bad? Whose music is it playing when the big bad is defeated? Whose moment is it? The answer to all of these questions is the same and it's not "the actual hero of the story".

Honestly I really doubt he's even played DT at this point

[MoofiaBossVal]

I didn't mind being a secondary character in the story. I thought parts of Tural were novel, like the Moblins who kidnap craftsmen and cheer them on, or the Mamooja. Overall liked the new aesthetics. Something I hadn't seen before.

To me, the problem with Dawntrail's story is a really basic, really easy to fix mistake: lack of tension. Everything else could remain the same, but if the tension was increased than people's overall enjoyment of the story would have gone up a lot. The plot issues could be overlooked if the story was engaging on a moment to moment basis. People will endure bad plot if they like the characters (Dawntrail cast was likeable enough) and if there is sufficiently high tension. I have many issues with the plots of prior expacs, but they generally moved at a fast enough pace and had enough tension that I didn't care and just moved on to the next exciting thing. But in Dawntrail you can spend several hours clicking through visual novel text boxes and cutscenes and there is nothing happening. No tension to keep you on the edge of your seat wanting to find out what will happen next. All semblance of tension is gone when the deathbird escapes and causes no devastation whatsoever, no casualties taken when vanquishing it, and the guy who let the deathbird escape isn't even given so much as a slap on the wrist.

[Jeeqbit]

I don't really care if Wuk Lamat or anyone else dealt the final blow or something like that. It doesn't change the fact we spent about 10 minutes weakening it, or alternatively holding it off.

Was anyone upset that Estinien got the final blow on Nidhogg in The Aery? I wasn't - that was exactly what I wanted to happen. I didn't need anymore accolades at that point. Estinien had worked his whole life for that moment.

[Alice_Rivers]

Was anyone upset that Estinien got the final blow on Nidhogg in The Aery? I wasn't - that was exactly what I wanted to happen. I didn't need anymore accolades at that point. Estinien had worked his whole life for that moment.

That fight didn't throw it in your face, it was also better before they changed it to remove Estinien from the fight itself because he was actually there, it made sense for him to be there and the plot clearly calls for him to do it. Aery Nidhogg and later Nidhogg trial is fun and satisfying to play. DT's last trial cannot claim the same thing, it has the same thing that E8 does, except where E8 is merely irritating because (again) it makes some sense and the party is actually caught out and incapacitated, DT's last trial forces this upon you out of nowhere simply because the writer's beloved Wuk Lamat is not present. The attack that "incapacitates" the party is nothing new, we went through it two minutes earlier without issue, it's no different this time save for "plot". Wuk Lamat can have her moment in a cutscene after the fight, just like Estinien does, the HW writers knew and understood this.

The worst part of it though? I liked the fight design, I enjoyed the mechanics, they just ruined the whole thing pulling that stupid stunt.

[Blackweaver]

Here's my personal take on Dawntrail. The Wuk Lamat story arc, is done. It had a beginning, a middle and an end. It was merely to set up for the warrior of light as a possible good memories later down the line. Something we can look back on and say "Yeah we did some good here". Wuk Lamat's story is done. She's going to more than likely be like Lyse, and be busy governing Tural as Dawnservant. We on the other hand, judging by the ending, our journey has only just begun. The side story is over and now, the story is going to be shifting back to us, as we continue our adventuring life. We may be asked to help intervein in Solution nine, as people there have just had their Ishgard moment. Their queen is dead, and now they need to learn to live normal lives, without feeding on others souls. Zoraal Ja used up a majority of the souls in the bank as we saw, there's almost nothing left in their storage. So we will likely be asked to help integrate them into the source and re-introducing them to life here in the source.

There's still going to be a big bad in this story arc. We never found out what our big bad was until endwalker. But we always thought the ascians were the big bad. And I suspect we aren't done with the ascians just yet. Either that, or some new minor villain group will show up we have to deal with. Either way, the game is still solid. Was Wuk over-used in this MSQ? Yes absolutely. SE will have learned a good lesson from this experience. The devs are human. They make mistakes like everyone else, and they take the lesson learned from mistakes and go forward better for the experience. Look at ARR. It was a complete rebirth from the mess that was 1.0. And a few expansions later, they did go back and streamlined the story a lot more, and cut out the bloat and it was made all the better for it.

Overall, dawntrail will get better. The story wasn't bad. We returned to being just another adventurer, who happens to have in their background, the fact we saved the entire planet. But our goal was to return to our roots. DT's MSQ was like ARR, it was setting up this new areas lore for us. Now that that is done, the real story for us begins. That being said, the amount of toxicity I am seeing in this forum... yeah this here is going to be my final post on these forums. I will continue to enjoy FFXIV. It is hands down, the best MMO on the market. Not even WoW can capture the majesty of this game. And that is a fact.

[Alice_Rivers]

Overall, dawntrail will get better. The story wasn't bad. We returned to being just another adventurer, who happens to have in their background, the fact we saved the entire planet. But our goal was to return to our roots. DT's MSQ was like ARR, it was setting up this new areas lore for us. Now that that is done, the real story for us begins. That being said, the amount of toxicity I am seeing in this forum... yeah this here is going to be my final post on these forums. I will continue to enjoy FFXIV. It is hands down, the best MMO on the market. Not even WoW can capture the majesty of this game. And that is a fact.

I don't think it's so important that we saved the world. I know multiple people on this forum (myself included) wanted a return to being just another adventurer having adventures but I really don't feel like DT delivered that. It certainly didn't deliver a low stakes story what with another attempt to end all life on the planet, the stakes don't get much higher... It's kind of a shame the story failed so spectacularly to capture the idea of adventure since the art and environment teams did such a good job, some areas could have done with more environmental storytelling but that's a fairly minor detail, instead the story team suffocated any adventure or lore or character development for anyone who isn't Wuk Lamat (or Wuk Lamat herself) with Wuk Lamat. Others have pointed out in other threads that Erenville and Krile's stories (such as they are) basically only exist for five minutes on the final map and Krile's entire racial history is written up in interactive screens that can be missed and then never read because they die with the zone! But our heroine considers this boring, probably because it isn't about her, she should be told to shut up and deal with it because the world doesn't revolve around her but she isn't and we move on.

I think a lot of people here don't mind not being the centre of the story as long as our existence is relevant and we have some agency but in DT we're a bystander until some combat thing happens and even then we get a roleplay solo duty where we're literally a bystander. I think people are justified in feeling somewhat put out, perhaps even offended, by DT's MSQ. For me, the patches have a LOT of work to do to salvage what has already happened, I'm glad you're happy with it, I'm happy for everyone who liked what we got even if I don't exactly understand how or why and I'd be disappointed if that really is your last post but that's your decision.

[OdinelStarrei]

I don't really care if Wuk Lamat or anyone else dealt the final blow or something like that. It doesn't change the fact we spent about 10 minutes weakening it, or alternatively holding it off.

Was anyone upset that Estinien got the final blow on Nidhogg in The Aery? I wasn't - that was exactly what I wanted to happen. I didn't need anymore accolades at that point. Estinien had worked his whole life for that moment.

This is a bad whataboutism, Jeeqbit. You're better than this.

Estinien taking care of his lifelong nemesis is critical to not only his personal development as a character, but it also is the catalyst for the events of HW at Azys La and 3.3 to even happen. Estinien is a character who is figuratively and literally consumed by vengeance until he is shown a different path by our party during the events leading up to the Aery. Had he still been the same character, I wager he would have been entirely unable to resist Nidhogg's influence whatsoever. Estinien doesn't even kill Nidhogg in the gameplay fight, something he participates in, he kills him in cutscene where he does what Dragoons do. Take the fight into the sky, and brings him down. It's Estinien who takes Nidhogg's eyes, completes the set, and starts turning all the gears for the end of the Dragonsong War. It's BECAUSE Estinien worked his entire life to see Nidhogg laid low that makes this our win as the WoL proving their worth as a ward of Count Fortemps, and for Estinien as the Azure Dragoon, and putting his family to rest feel satisfying outside of bad guy is dead now. Even after he is taken over by Nidhogg and almost kills everyone he has begun to start caring about, he names his spear "Nidhogg" in remembrance, in respect, and in, what I feel, is regret over the actions that caused his madness. Now "Nidhogg" protects Etheirys, like the original Nidhogg was always supposed to. It's many culminations and combinations of Dragon history, Ishgardian history, and personal history that tie that knot. Don't put Wuk Lumat in that kind of legacy, because she hasn't earned it.

You're not using the more relevant example, which is Eden 8 with Ryne and Gaia. Gaia tapping into Ascian powers to warp into the arena makes narrative sense. Gaia wanting to save Ryne makes narrative sense. Gaia proceeded to save our lives makes both narrative, and gameplay sense, as we have been shown both in gameplay through Eden 2 and in cutscenes the extent of her time manipulation powers. It makes thematic sense for Shadowbringers as a whole, that Light, friendship, and determination is not enough, sometimes Darkness is required to save the Light. Even then, Gaia still needs us as players to break the ice, pun intended. But this act alone makes Gaia a hero in her own right, even if she is totally insufferable, even if she doesn't understand all the stakes involved, she still put her life on the line for the party, plus the alternative is a verifiable Flood of Light and that's no good, even she understands that. Putting Hydalaen-Ryne in ice that resembles the Mothercrystal needing to broken by an not-Ascian? Obvious, yes, but thematically appropriate. The key point I'm trying to make here is that it doesn't feel forced and entirely contrived. There was a little build up, at least.

It's not about getting "accolades" or whatever. I don't need any more medals. What Wuk Lumat does is a kill steal, and it's unsatisfying. Wuk Lumat giving me, the Warrior of Light, her personal buff, instead of my personal buff of Brilliant Conviction is a narrative slap in the face. I have never felt inspired by Wuk Lumat once. I've known her for like what, two months max, after dealing with her talking over Krile, dragging me all over Tural, getting kidnapped, and whining to me every time we need to take a mode of transportation? Sphene could have done another Absolute Authority. I don't have a problem really that she breaks out of her science prison or whatever. But maybe, instead, we get a narrative moment in gameplay, where because Sphene says that great "Are you still alive?" line a few extra times in the same tone, overriding the already set in place, and broken, safeguards, and just starts stacking damage ups during the cast. I'm talking Are you still alive? +1 Are you still alive? +3 Are you still alive? +9 Are you still alive? +16 Commencing. BINDS THE PARTY so you can't LB3. THEN Wuk Lumat busts in, Tank LBs herself because we can't, she can even throw out the "I will protect my people's happiness" right back at Sphene to tie that theme together as Queens/Protectors of their people, and she saves the group. Afterwards, she can either fight with us a bit, or get punched out of reality again when Sphene restores critical processes to re-jail her and returns to her original appearance, and in that lapse in strength, she is defeated. Anything but Wuk Lumat doing a Decimate that does more damage than the entire party combined. It's like 10% or something on a single attack on a final boss, come on. I have literally been in instances where the entire party is dead and the tanks+Wuk Lumat kill the boss because Wuk Lumat is so strong and tanks can't die to her suddenly pathetic attacks.

She didn't earn this, and they don't do anything interesting after the moment either, the fight gets substantially worse. Developers literally just gave her god powers for one instance. How is the same jobber who in the previous dungeon could fall over if you didn't heal them as a Warrior be the same character next instance punching a Elder Primal level threat who can travel/terraform dimensions right in the face no problem? Remember when we played as Estinien and we fought Proto-Ultima and his high-tier Dragoon powers actually felt earned? Or when G'raha Tia pulls a clutch summon at the end of Shadowbringers and we were all like "yeah that makes sense, he's been working on this spell for like five years at this point." Outside of doing nothing, which actually would have been better, they choose the most jarring way to bookend this expansion, and it pulled me personally, right out of the experience of an otherwise really good fight.


EDIT: Wait, this tangent is disrespectful of the original topic. Yes, this direction is not great. If someone gives me an appetizer that is trash, I'm not going to hold my breath for the main course. I'd be more likely to hold my nose. You can tell good stories in 3 hours, or 300 hours. I'm no stranger to slow world-building, I live for it, if anything (Trails in the Sky trilogy anyone? That entire first game is just character/world building). This is juvenile. It's like, my time is being wasted on purpose or something.

[ZXN]

...First and foremost, I don't want to be relegated to a supporting character. The Warrior of Light should remain the narrative's main focus.

I wouldn't have minded being a side-character in Dawntrail: if it actually made sense to be one. We literally defeated the personification of despair yet in Dawntrail we're reduced to a Yes-Man Babysitter for a cat who doesn't do anything of value. I feel like this is ultimately because of our "strength" in-universe so they have to "wrangle us in", but constantly we're just standing there...doing absolutely nothing...in situations we would effortlessly solve because "If Wuk cannot do it, then NOBODY can!" They handled the "Main Character taking a step back for another" horrendously.

Additionally, I want to provide separate feedback regarding Tural and its portrayal in the latest expansion...The New World's attempt to showcase multiple cultures feels cluttered and disjointed; they overshadow one another rather than create a cohesive narrative...The focus seems to have shifted to superficial elements, like fictional food culture that lacks relevance to our experience as players. I recall reading in another interview that Latin America was chosen as an inspiration because the community wanted tacos. Is that seriously the justification for an entire expansion's theme? I'm left feeling confused and disappointed by this direction.

Outside of the Yok Huy, who are actually interesting with their culture being about creating tombstones for people before they die, carving their stories with the idea that people live on in the memories of others, all the others introduced are pretty...simple.

- Hanu Hanu are reduced to reeds and a festival
- Pelu Pelu are reduced to Mezcal, Alpacas, and trading
- Moblins are just Goblins who help make the shinnies instead of making robots
- Xb'raal is...more food
- Mamook is bananas and a centuries long eugenics problem...which is solved by giving them plantable food that is not bananas.
- Hhetsarro are just cowboys and Indians for the most part, and also "YEEHAW GUNS"

I know the cultures in 14 are definitely not suppose to be "perfect replicas", but it feels like they did the absolute bare minimum and went "Good enough". If they really only did Latin America now because "players really wanted more tacos" then I wouldn't be surprised if it's because of the "Big Fat Tacos" meme from Ruby Weapon...which feels just kind of insulting to really think about if it actually is the case since it means the Latin America area and all their cultures were ultimately reduced to what we got in Dawntrail all so the devs could push a taco meme.

Of course I am not Latin American, so I will leave any anger/complaints/praises to the actual Latin Americans who play this game as I am sure many have plenty to say about how they feel the Devs and writers handled their cultures with Dawntrail.