YoshiP “Torn" Over What to do with the Scions (Interview)

[SeriousPan]

Did you really never question why Estinien jumped on the bandwagon at the literal last possible second?

Of course they did, they're just being funny. :P The Scions randomly appearing for Trust purposes is one of the most blatantly obvious flaws in DT's writing.

[gumas]

estinien appearing out of nowhere is just being funny and actually kinda make sense? guy is genuine adventurer and thrill seeker now, after HW he is a free man and go wherever he want

[ZXN]

There are two main reasons the scions were put into Dawntrail

1. Marketing
2. To fill the duty support / trials

It might be a "new" story, but they already know that if all the scions take an actual backseat even if it's just for one expansion, some people genuinely won't play because their favorite scion isn't present. It's just far easier to use the "faces" of the game to market it then to actually do much of anything either with new character or to build up already existing characters. Hoary Boulder? Coultenet? Alianne? Riol? Ocher? Clemence? There are a lot more scions outside of just the core group we travel with constantly. Hell they even gave my man Hoary a voice actor in Endwalker!...But it's just more marketable to use all the pre-established core members of the scions and shoehorn them into the story. No matter how minor the role or how little they actually appear: ALL the scions have to be in the expansion no matter what.

The only Scion that ABSOLUTELY had to be in Dawntrail was Krile; and she got shafted HARD by the writers so their black hole sue OC cat could tell you about how much she loves peace for the thousandth time. She got hyped up constantly every fanfest keynote and ultimately was shrugged off by every NPC she asked questions to for most of the 1st half, had a bombshell about her life dropped on her OFF-SCREEN [Yes we got an Echo scene for it, but it was still learned off-screen], and then finally when she gets a crumb of content with her parents and it's finally all about her: the fucking cat complains the entire time because "learning dumb make brain hurt" and then it's over in a few minutes and we are told to move on. Hell, a certain bunny mom introduced in Zone 5 had MORE spoken dialogue in zones 5/6 then Krile had IN THE ENTIRE EXPANSION. At that point Krile may as well have not been in Dawntrail either since they treated her even WORSE then the other scions, and they were all just cardboard cutouts just there because they HAD to be there.

The other reason is, obviously, to fill the duty support system. Valigarmanda they at least shook up the formula slightly by having Koana and Zoraal Ja in them to help you, but other then that it's Wuk and Scions right up until the very end...until Wuk comes in again but that's for a different thread.

The entire patch series is just going to be the same probably: here is a dungeon where conveniently a scion or two just comes out of nowhere with some miraculous "free time" to help you and then leave again. Trial time? Oh man, here comes ALL the scions! Even the ones that you haven't seen in 2-3 patch cycles!!!

Prepare to embrace your cardboard cutout comrades for 7.X series and beyond.

[Brynne]

People will only complain if you don't give us a good enough REASON for their absense. If I feel the only reason a character isn't included in the story is because the writer didn't want them there, then I'd be upset (like I was in Dawntrail). If I feel like "ok, that makes sense, and we will meet them again and see how that went afterwards", and then we get to see the result of their work at a later time, then it's satisfying.

This is so true. I'm one of those people who loves the Scions and wants to see more of them, but I want to see MEANINGFUL content with them. Give them active roles in the story, or have them working on something that we'll see payoff for later. Or if the story is not of earth-shattering importance (at first), you should be looking at the Scions in terms of "who would naturally go along" and "who could play an active role in the new story", and then use the story leading up to the expansion to give good reasons for anyone from group 1 who doesn't fit into group 2 to not go, and anyone from group 2 who isn't in group 1 to go. That should be a good part of the second half of post-patches, where the new expansion is set up.

I've been pretty open about the fact that I want to get closer to the Scions and this is where I think side quests could really be helpful. Say G'raha isn't going to be active in the expansion because he's busy at the Annex. Have a side quest series where you can go back and help him with whatever he's working on. Estinien isn't going to be active in the story? Side quests where you run into him and see what he's up to. They don't have to be attached to content like trials and dungeons, just little things like the Scholasticate quests in Heavensward but with your reward being - say - you get to call G'raha "Raha" from then on (seriously, I want this. Please give it to me SE). The sidequests could be set at a specific period in time but obviously you can go back and do them whenever and you're basically going back in time to do the things, kind of like if you skip Coils, Alexander and/or Omega then go to do them after you finish the msq.

[undull1]

Not very inspiring, the interviews show Yoship has lost control of his own project.......or he's dishonest.

Also people are acting like they provide meaningful compromises to the scion solution yet these discussions were already had back in 6.1 when "surprise, we lied, scions are back lmao".
Honestly the predictions on how there would be nothing meaningful for them to do was on point, so I can't believe in good faith that Yoship is surprised despite fan discussion calling it out for years prior.

[Carin-Eri]

Not very inspiring, the interviews show Yoship has lost control of his own project.......or he's dishonest.

Also people are acting like they provide meaningful compromises to the scion solution yet these discussions were already had back in 6.1 when "surprise, we lied, scions are back lmao".
Honestly the predictions on how there would be nothing meaningful for them to do was on point, so I can't believe in good faith that Yoship is surprised despite fan discussion calling it out for years prior.

It does, sadly, seem as if his priorities are elsewhere lately, though I very much doubt he'd be either willing or able to admit it.

[Ramiee]

Scions don't need to present all the time anymore, their main purpose was to destroy the Ascians which they succeeded in.
The scions order needs to be allowed to die and each character needs to find their own path in life which we run into time and time again, like how Estinien is meant to be. I don't want more contrived drama and reasons for them to all be around, their job is done and they're all very different people, Thancred is nothing like Urinager I thought the idea of them both doing the same thing in DT was dumb if anything I would of seen Thancred and Estinien working together to help Koana. It would also make us like them more, if there was an expansion where we didnt see Alphinaud at all then later we saw him and hes grown up a little or changed he would be exciting to see again and it would also make the world feel more real, not saying they don't need to have a consistent character in the series, I think having Tataru around for comedic relief and post=patch is good but I don't want to constantly see the rest of the Scions.

[Gaddes]

Thancred is nothing like Urinager

Opposites attract....
All jokes aside, it's been pretty well established since Shadowbringers that the two of them had been around each other the most compared to other Scions... from their time raising Ryne together in Il Mheg to the Eden raids and beyond. I actually think they pair rather well, as they're both more settled down now in their older age and are complements for one another. It's pretty natural for people to get along and not be exactly like their friend/partner. I'm certainly not like my husband, lol.
Estinien has quite the history of working alone unless it's the WoL in an unusual circumstance or when he has a more personal investment (like Vrtra), so if anything him and Thancred pairing up would be the odd thing to see.

[Carin-Eri]

Opposites attract....
All jokes aside, it's been pretty well established since Shadowbringers that the two of them had been around each other the most compared to other Scions... from their time raising Ryne together in Il Mheg to the Eden raids and beyond. I actually think they pair rather well, as they're both more settled down now in their older age and are complements for one another. It's pretty natural for people to get along and not be exactly like their friend/partner. I'm certainly not like my husband, lol.
Estinien has quite the history of working alone unless it's the WoL in an unusual circumstance, so if anything him and Thancred pairing up would be the odd thing to see.

I don't know, he worked pretty well with Gaius when they teamed up!

[Gaddes]

I don't know, he worked pretty well with Gaius when they teamed up!

Yeah I was thinking about that one since that's the only time he was in a group that didn't also include the WoL, but it was also an unusual instance where he was going solo for a bit and just happened to bump into a similar-minded person and decided (albeit reluctantly, it looks like at first) to work together specifically because they're in a tricky spot behind enemy lines and it made too much sense to work together than going into danger solo. But I do think it's key to note that he didn't enter his situation with someone else, it just happened along the way. Seems like enjoying solitude is baked into his personality by default; he does team up on occasion, but he doesn't seem to like doing it for any longer than is needed.