YoshiP “Torn" Over What to do with the Scions (Interview)

[Voidmage]

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You can keep your insult to yourself.
I never skipped a single cutscene in this damn game. It’s just my opinion.

It doesn‘t matter when we promised him. Endwalker WAS an adventure with him.
We also didn‘t promise him those specific things ourselves. That was his own monologue on what HE would love to do. We just nodded and fistbumbed on the topic of „yeah let’s have more adventures together“.

We went to Ishgard with him as short as that was.
What do you want? Taking him to every single place we were before? That would take time of the story and would be incredibly unfair to all the fans of the other scions. It would be favourism towards G‘Raha Tia.
At maximum it could be a sidequest and even then you would need some for the others as well.

Of course Myth of the Realm counts. He was part of that adventure and an adventure it was.
He was in it and played an active role.
We don‘t need a bucket list of „places G‘Raha Tia wants to go.

Again, there are quite a number of people who are not completely into him.
What about them?
What about for example me who would like an adventure with Thancred?
He was a creepy fanboy in some peoples eyes after Shb. That’s just an opinion and has nothing to do with fanfictions.
I think there is a reason why he was toned down with time to what he is now.
A level headed young man that enjoys his time with us. THATS the G‘Raha Tia I like and enjoy. A true companion.

G‘Raha Tia is not the only scion and he ALREADY is coming with us on adventures.
I don‘t want the writers to bend backwards just to give him even more screentime and focus.
He has enough already and doesn‘t need to overshadow the other scions.
I don‘t need another Wuk Lamat.

[CamuiKushi]

I want the scions to be sidelined. The writing for them in DT made them feel like brand new characters. I'd honestly rather see them go off and have a happy ending than turn into characters I don't recognise.

[chizLemons]

You can keep your insult to yourself.
I never skipped a single cutscene in this damn game. It’s just my opinion.

(...)

Where did I ever insult you? Saying it seems like you skipped cutscenes is not an insult, it's the impression that you are giving me. No need to get defensive. And I'd appreciate if you explained where your opinions came from, else I can just assume.

If the promises aren't mentioned, then we don't get the closure to accept they were fulfilled, so they are still in the open.
And no, I'm not asking for a complete world tour with G'raha in the MSQ for them to be valid - it would be wonderful to have a sidequest with some of them - but I'm saying it's something important that's there in the open, and at least part of it should be aknowledge in respect for that scene and the character.

And that isn't just valid for him, but for every Scion. If they tell me Y'shtola's main goal now is to be able to travel back to the First, I will expect to see it happen in the future, or at least see her efforts to get there along the way.

If they tell me Alisaie and Alphinaud are working hard to restore Garlemald, then I will expect to see some result of their work and how they're doing it, even if not directly all the time, but mentions of it - and more than Dawntrail provided, which was "yeah we're here because Garlemald" and then nothing.

If they tell me Krile is rebuilding the Students of Baldesion with G'raha, I expected to see what that entails, what they're working on. Instead, we just get them organizing a table and not going places because of stuff.

If they're going to write important, meaningful character goals and wishes during very memorable cutscenes, yes, I expect that to be relevant to the characters.

If you can't mention moments he was a "creepy fanboy", then I still can't really consider your opinion, because I can't think of a single moment when that was the case. I'd say his admiration for us is pretty much the same from when he was the Exarch, actually. You should replay Shadowbringers.

I don't think that's the reason he was "toned down", I think it really is just incompetent writing that butchered every Scion. Last time I saw G'raha written correctly was in 6.3 during the Eureka Orthos quest - because it is Ishikawa's writing.
If she didn't "tone him down" during the patches because of people complaining of things that are not there, then no, I don't think they would do it for that reason elsewhere.

[Voidmage]

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Implying I skipped cutscenes because my viewpoint doesn‘t align with yours is so often used as a way to belittle the other opinion. Of course I get defensive.
My opinions are my opinions. I got them from interpreting the story and how I respond to them.
I try my best to explain why I think like that. You decide in the end if that is enough to accept my point of view or not.
I am not trying to change your mind but express my opinion why I think G‘Raha doesn‘t need special treatment.

No we don‘t need him saying „thanks, I can cross this of my list“.
An adventure is an adventure. It doesn‘t have to be the specific ones he wants personally.
Alphinaud and the others also went to adventures with us without confirming it every time.
I talk about the adventure topic and not about Y‘stholas goal with the first and even if than no, some things don‘t need closure on my opinion.
I can believe what Krile does without seeing the result with the students.
If the writers wrote about every single achievement of the scions then we wouldn‘t have much of new stories to tell.
We don‘t need to know everything. For that stuff there exist the short stories they used to post of it is important enough.

Listen, I don‘t say G‘Raha shouldn‘t come with us. What I am saying is that this should be accepted as what it is, an adventure like the stuff before.

Again you imply I didn‘t pay attention to the story in Shb, please stop that.
I found his behavior in Azys La unnerving, how he waited for us while gathering to talk to us in private.
I found his fumbling unnerving when Y‘sthola gave her shiptease but I also find Alisaie creepy in those scenes. (Just two examples)

Granted he mellowed down and I grew fond of him as he is since 6.55.
How is he written wrong now?
He is a guy with deep thoughts because of his experience and not a new adventurer that looks in awe at the WoL.
He still has fun with his new life but he grew up to become the seasoned and wise man he actually is.

[chizLemons]

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How is showing admiration towards someone creepy? The game doesn't force your character to reciprocate, the character does their thing and it's up to you how you react, specially in every situation that you mentioned there.
Y'shtola teases G'raha in 5.4 about wanting to go with us, and your character just stands there, and you can interpret that as you wish. He wants to talk to you in private to thank you, and you can actually pick an option that scolds him for doing so. Yes, he admires you and cares about you as a friend, just like Alisaie and all of the Scions, but each has a different way to demonstrate it.

I'd be more disappointed if they did it because of haters. It would be very unconsiderate towards fans of a character to change how they behave, specially because it's not the majority that thinks so. Imagine if a loud minority decided they hate Erenville because he's introverted, and then next patch he is very talkative without any development to ease him there? They could very well decide they wanted him that direction, but that had to be a gradual development, and not just ignore who he was before.

No character will ever be beloved by everyone, but every character should stay consistent. And consistent writing is something that is greatly missing from this game right now.

And, again, if the story is going to present me some very meaningful thing about a character, ANY CHARACTER in a very important scene, then yes, that should be addressed if the character is to keep appearing. G'raha's biggest wish is to go on adventures with us - one specifically even mentioned Ishgard. When I see him immediately turning down adventure, not caring about being in one and not even mentioning saying such things, it's bad writing, it's out of character - it's not toning down. And also, you seem to be reducing your memory of actually-well-written G'raha to the 2 or 3 moments you can think of when he is a little more enthusiastic about us, but please don't forget him during the entirety of Endwalker as well. It was a very nice balance between his younger self, happy to be in an adventure, while being wise and acting accordingly to the situation.

When he offered to stay behind in 6.55, knowing how the game told me leaving on one would be MEANINGFUL to him, I imagined he would have a really good reason not to go. It's not about giving him any kind of special treatment or more screentime, it's just respecting his motivations and wishes as a character, and making it consistent. Instead, it was just a very weak excuse to not have him there in the first part, and treat his arrival as cheap fanservice later.

If by your logic they don't have to aknowledge the things the characters want to do and their motivations, they why mention any at all? Just keep writing them like they did in DT - yes men NPC to the current main character. That's what they are now, and I can't imagine you're happy with it either.

[Voidmage]

snip.

You answered yourself. I choose how to react to it and for me I am unnerved by that because I generally don‘t like it if people are too personal too fast or stare at me in awe especially if they have proven to be just as good like me.

I gave you examples of what I found unnerving. You can choose to see that different and like it if G‘Raha gushes over your character but I don‘t.
Alisaie and G‘Raha sometimes come over as more than just written as friends and more as trying to force a love interest onto my character and handwaving it as „you can interpret it as whatever you want“.
My character is her own person and important to me. That’s why I like if they give me dialogue choices from time to time.

Of course they shouldn’t change characters because of haters but they have to consider feedback.
G‘Raha was mellowed down a bit and as a result grew on me.
I haven’t read many complaints about how he is now. So I think he is in a good balanced spot right now. Close but not overbearing.
Did they do it because of feedback or because that’s what they always envisioned? I don‘t know and tbh I don‘t really care.
But for me it is a natural growth in personality for him.

You move the goalpost. I only mentioned two examples because you wanted examples.
I won‘t give more. That would be unneeded because we have completely different viewpoints than of that character.

Him staying behind in 6.55 was actually very in character in my opinion.
Krile wanted to learn about her past but didn‘t want to leave the students behind so G‘Raha took care of it.
Putting others well-being over his own is consistent with his character. He was sad about it but did it nonetheless.
That was the scene were he got my respect.
In the end she went with us anyway so I don‘t see the problem. He was a central part of the second half of the DT story.

Your last point is spinning my viewpoint.
No I don‘t want the DT characterization. That’s a hyperbole.
I am saying not every little thing needs to be addressed in the MSQ. I even gave sidequests and sidestories as a solution.
I want new stories and not seeing Krile rebuild the students or seeing Thancred gathering information in a marketplace.
It’s fine if they do it outside of our view and we see the results or maybe a echo flashback.
I don‘t even have a problem with spending time with them here and there but I don‘t want a bucket list with their names on it we have to go through.
What’s after we did the things with him you listed? Do we bench him him then or get a new list? Where is the finish line?
Do we spend eternity with G‘Raha as our new travel companion next to our Chocobo?

All I am saying is that those things should be natural.
The scions can have their own adventures and that road can and should cross with ours here and there.
But I don‘t want any of them in my face 24/7.
That’s what Wuk Lamat did and even my favorite characters would become annoying.

[genuine_stranger]

Honestly, I think they should retire them.

The perfect opportunity would have been at the end of 5.3, after they returned to the Source.

They didn’t do that.

The next opportunity was at the end of EW with the 6.x patches giving them a final hurrah.

They didn’t do that either.

Now we’re stuck with a cardboard cutout of them. Where do they go from here? Will they all be some “chosen” ones that have a super secret and ambiguous past?
Do we drag them along for the same character beats?
Will they just be present just like in DT from here on out?

What are we going to do with them? Most of them have gone through their arc.
Keeping them around for much longer will detract from new characters. They will face no real challenges because we have the dream team of experts who can solve everything.

[Khryseis_Astra]

THEY WERE, however, mentioned in a planetarium collaboration event in Japan, narrated by him. So that means Ishikawa still remembers them (she was the one that wrote the event), but the new writers didn't play Endwalker, apparently.

Really? I mean I guess I don’t expect all the writers to actually play the game. But you’d think it would be important for them to at least read the MSQ scripts or watch the cutscenes from the prior expansions if they’re going to be carrying such a long running story forward! Especially ShB & EW… just because it’s the start of a new story doesn’t mean they don’t need to know all that stuff! lol

[Morphiana]

Replying to the original OP - It would be cool if the WoL found themselves somewhere cut off from their support system entirely. This means the Scions and any other allies.

It is true the WoL is a beast among beasts but it is also true we rely heavily upon our allies. Seeing the WoL start from scratch again and creating a new support team to deal with issues you can't just punch in the face, that would be a lot of fun. It let's the WoL retain their strength (we aren't doing that old trope of we lose all our power) but because we can't just power through everything it helps remind the WoL how much they truly depend on the supports.

Could end that xpac's MSQ by having the WoL "lose". Perhaps the thing we're trying to defend is a city that falls because the new supports we got weren't strong enough to defend themselves while we were out dealing with the big bad who was actually just a distraction to get us away from the city.

Post-MSQ could be one of the surviving supports helping us get back into contact with the Scions(or if it is the 13th we could ally with old foes who we opt to unseal like Barbara) so we can work together to take down the true big bad and get revenge for our new (dead) friends.

[Connor]

Clearly they found the answer. What to do with the scions? give them better eyelashes .