DT Job Reworks - Unconfident Developers and Poor Communication

[Supersnow845]

^keeping the motifs separate is specifically so you can keep track of the charged CD while having it rendered. If creature muse became render creature then when you had a creature painted you wouldn’t be able to see what the CD is on creature muse if you want to paint far in advance. Mog and madeen you don’t want replacing creature as well as you can paint one part beyond the creature without replacing it (say you can have madeen up and paint Pom muse and use it without it affecting madeen)

The other examples are totally fair though

[Ramiee]

One thing that bothers me GREATLY is the pacing of the content distribution. The beginning of the expansion is kinda barren, and I feel that x.05 should add in something meaningful like a Deep Dungeon or the first iteration of the Field Operation.

7.0-x should of given us Savage, c&v 1, first tribe quests and Firmament 2
7.1-x should be the a-raids, Eureka 3, blue mage update and ultimate raid
7.2-x should be firmament 2 update, savage tier, c&v 2 and relic starts
7.3-x should be Eureka 3 update, a-raid 2, DD4, beastmaster, second tribe quests
7.4-x should be firmament 2 update, final c&v, final savage tier,
7.5-x should be final a-raid, final eureka 3 update, second ultimate raid, third tribe quests, hard mode dungeons (they need to come back)

Dungeon and trials series can fit wherever, Id prefer not having a dungeon every patch if theyre better quality and also unreal and pvp updates. They should expand unreal and make unreal raids (not the entire tier) and either flip between that and the trial or have them as two options, unreal adds a lot of fun in patches between savage raids. But yeah X.0 is always the same thing: savage but before that fate farming and then after savage waiting for ultimate then next patch. Having DD4 or even the new firmament would be good at the start.

[Carighan]

^keeping the motifs separate is specifically so you can keep track of the charged CD while having it rendered. If creature muse became render creature then when you had a creature painted you wouldn’t be able to see what the CD is on creature muse if you want to paint far in advance. Mog and madeen you don’t want replacing creature as well as you can paint one part beyond the creature without replacing it (say you can have madeen up and paint Pom muse and use it without it affecting madeen)

The other examples are totally fair though

Yeah, although I would definitely see just folding the muses and the motifs as something that can be done at 0 loss of depth. After all, you cannot use a muse before the motif has been painted, so there's no reason not to unlock it, and just show the muse CD on the empty canvas in the meantime. The other stuff I definitely wouldn't fold though, for mechanic pre-painting reasons.

[Raikai]

7.0-x should of given us Savage, c&v 1, first tribe quests and Firmament 2
7.1-x should be the a-raids, Eureka 3, blue mage update and ultimate raid
7.2-x should be firmament 2 update, savage tier, c&v 2 and relic starts
7.3-x should be Eureka 3 update, a-raid 2, DD4, beastmaster, second tribe quests
7.4-x should be firmament 2 update, final c&v, final savage tier,
7.5-x should be final a-raid, final eureka 3 update, second ultimate raid, third tribe quests, hard mode dungeons (they need to come back)

Dungeon and trials series can fit wherever, Id prefer not having a dungeon every patch if theyre better quality and also unreal and pvp updates. They should expand unreal and make unreal raids (not the entire tier) and either flip between that and the trial or have them as two options, unreal adds a lot of fun in patches between savage raids. But yeah X.0 is always the same thing: savage but before that fate farming and then after savage waiting for ultimate then next patch. Having DD4 or even the new firmament would be good at the start.

Yeah, the Blue Mage update being SO late in the expansion cycle is really bothersome, becasue by then we already have a lot to sink in.

[Ramiee]

'Render Hammer' doesn't replace 'paint Hammer onto your gauge, when tf am I going to paint another hammer without rendering the one I currently have on my gauge first?

Same could be said of Mog of the Ages replacing Creature Motif but there might be some wild opti I'm not aware of for that one

Comet doesn't replace Holy when you're in Subractive Spectrum, but you cannot use Holy while in Subtractive so why have the option there and greyed out?

Same applies for Fire/Aero/Water > Stone/Ice/Thunder, if I can't use FAW while in Subtractive why can't I just combine the two buttons?

Star Prism can only be used after Starry Muse, but the two cannot be combined. At least with Rainbow Drip you can hardcast it so there's a reason for it to be separate

I'm guessing the reason here is, if they combined some of the stuff that would make sense to combine on PCT, the job would have like 12 buttons (and another like 8 for role actions/sprint/potion/LB) and people would point at it and laugh and say 'haha look at the dumbo job with so few buttons'

Besides the stronger spells, for muses, and im being very generous with CBU3 here. I think they have this system for future sub-muses for example instead of a hammer we get a sword option but we use the same hammer attack button, If this is future proofing then its fine however if its not its just bloat. The stronger attacks and holy/comet is pretty dumb to be seperated, it would only work if you could use the normal spells and the stronger spells at the same time but the job is clearly not designed for that.

Yeah, the Blue Mage update being SO late in the expansion cycle is really bothersome, becasue by then we already have a lot to sink in.

I tried to structure that list to have something to do for every type of player, from crafters to battle content enjoyers per patch.
Limited Jobs are a very fun thing for midcore between patches so having them between the savage tier would be solid imo, especially considering blue mage updates are becoming worse and worse. If we are gonna have a medicore update they can at least make it happen early on so we can do the new raid series earlier.

[LisseyCrowe]

In DT almost all jobs were changed to provide a free use of their resource spender, instead of simply giving the resource (eg. RDM's Manafication, RPR's Plentiful Harvest). A simple, yet great change to avoid frustration due to overcapping and wasting resources.

Small Reaper nitpick here,

I've yet to see a single situation where this change has been positive, while it's been a negative on a regular basis. It's one of those "only looks good on a 100% uptime/target dummy". Reaper just isn't a job that ever overcapped its blue gauge and so trading 50 gauge that could be pooled and used whenever for a 30 second "free" Enshroud buff that needs to be used just does not help it in the slightest.

The only Devil's Advocate argument I can come up with is that it is technically possible to pop Arcane Circle and then just ... forget to Enshroud despite having enough gauge, generate more gauge, finally realize you were supposed to Enshroud but the 30 seconds timer for Plentiful Harvest are running out but using it will overcap so you need to Enshroud first which takes 10 seconds-ish to execute? I guess that can happen, but then why not let Plentiful Harvest be useable while in enshroud instead and naturally lead more curious players into learning about the double Enshroud window?

I guess my point is, the reason Dancer got a seemingly weird change is because so did Reaper, and it's just yet more evidence of "People making changes they don't really understand or feel too strongly about", aka "Throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks".

[KoS_Jooken]

I know people are gushing over the Tsubame changes for Samurai, but I want to point out how they threw a dart with a blindfold for this too.

Kaiten being removed and not replaced while also not providing a sufficient reason (They provided multiple reasons that never made any sense). The guaranteed crit being slapped on, being too weak especially for a job that relies on being selfish, then changed how crit buffs functioned immediately to try and shift the backlash away (It wasn't enough and potencies were constantly being updated in a slow, reactionary manner).

AOEs being changed to all circles being the reason (So as to not confuse players) to change Tenka Goken. The radius was also too small that it caused the very problems it was meant to fix.

Tsubame being tied to Meikyo out of nowhere and being thought of as a good idea.

The Kenki bar being completely useless now (It's been stripped multiple times, but Kaiten was the last thing that gave it any meaning). Kenki costs being changed across the board to reduce it's impact on decision making. Also, Seigan being removed only for part of it's function being moved to Third Eye.

They have also changed course from their reasoning for getting rid of the Hagakure rotation. They noted that they want us to have powerful, big hits with the Iaijutsu. Well, over time they have siphoned that power and constantly lowered the potency of the largest hitters and put them on the general rotation, the main offenders being Hakaze, Jinpu, and Shifu. The class fantasy for the job has been a big talking point in JP in particular and is causing some discussion asking what their identity is at this point.

Speaking of potency changes, you can look at an archive and see that they have nerfed and essentially reverted their change multiple times on numerous skills and abilities. This in itself is not really alarming, but alongside major changes it kind of tells you they don't really have a grasp of the jobs at all because they make so many. There's been several cases of the community making a better rotation than whatever they playtested/intended.

I'd also like to note this has nothing to do with how strong the job is and I'm just pointing out that they have absolutely no direction with their changes. This doesn't cover everything notable and I am just going off the top of my head. At this point I'm praying they don't touch the job any further with their "reworks", for all the garbage they have done, the recent change is acceptable but I'd be a fool to believe this will be the end of it. Additionally I really hope every job gets their voices heard, because with this interview I don't think any of us are.

[Zarkovitch]

It's so weird back in other expansion they nerfed freaking class with no mercy. It might be because EW reaper nerf they decide not to do on newer classes. Picto will be dominant Job this expansion even with the buffs of other classes. Now let's talk about Ninja being weakest melee and the most busiest of the melees getting destroy by VPR on RDPS. Now that's a issue need to be address and getting fix.

[jonimated]

FFXIV job design has been a victim of death by a thousand cuts. Throughout the updates and expansions every edge, every point of pushback, has been whittled away little by little to eventually become what we have now.

"It's fine we can get rid of Darkside. It's used on the same abilities every time anyway."
"We can remove Monk positionals. Nothing will really change."
"It's ok to get rid of Kaiten. It's just Samurai Darkside, and we got rid of that ages ago. It will still be totally the same."
"We can just remove enmity management, right? It's just a needless hurdle."
"Do we really need jobs to have any sort of gauge management? What if we just had 1 ability that used gauge so players didn't need to think about it."
"Sure we can remove Noxious Gnash. It's just a useless management tool anyway."

Any one of these changes in a vacuum to a single job may have been fine. It's the process of making these types of changes multiple times for every job over the course of several expansions which has lead us to job design we have now. Sanded down every edge into just blunt boring stumps. And realistically if making a change is "not going to change the job that much" then why even make the change in the first place? As someone above stated as well for some jobs, like Samurai and Dark Knight, it has also had the unintended side effect of stripping away job identity.

We are at a point where for most jobs (and even tanks for that matter) you can accurately sim an entire fight down to the GCD. And I don't mean using theoretical numbers and average proc chances. I mean if you know the "when" and the "how long" for downtime you can predict with 100% accuracy which GCD you will be pressing at minute 6 second 24. You will also know exactly how much resource you have at the time, have already spent, and will have and spent over the duration of the fight.

I can only speak for myself in this but I find this to be so unbelievably boring. If FFXIV allowed for proper cast sequence macros most jobs could assign an entire 10 minute fight to a single button. Great video game design.

The devs, and Yoshi-P, don't even really seem to realize anything is wrong. There's no signs of a course correction at all. Changes they have made in this very expansion reinforce that.

[Valence]

I can only speak for myself in this but I find this to be so unbelievably boring. If FFXIV allowed for proper cast sequence macros most jobs could assign an entire 10 minute fight to a single button. Great video game design.

The devs, and Yoshi-P, don't even really seem to realize anything is wrong. There's no signs of a course correction at all. Changes they have made in this very expansion reinforce that.

They're happy with the game in challenging content being about rehearsing a rigid script. Whether your rotation can be adjusted or not, in fine, it will always remain something that can be macroed in one single button provided encounter scripting remains static, or provided your job doesn't have any rng mechanics.