They should put actual MMO players on the development team.

[Mijin]

I've decided to redraft the post in order to better explain my argument, as it seems a lot of people were getting confused and angry. If you're interested in the first post you can easily find it quoted below.

In the following text I will explain what is, in my opinion, an easy and cost effective solution to a development problem that stems from a lack of knowledge regarding MMOs.

The current development team has been doing a much better job than the last. The team however lacks in experience when it comes to making, let alone playing MMO's. As can be verified in this interview, the current game director Naoki Yoshida stated that he had to ask members of his team to play MMOs because they were unfamiliar with them. Naoki Yoshida himself has played some MMOs in the past, but he's stated here, that he no longer has time to play games. That being said this is also the first MMO that hes ever worked on, let alone directed.

So my proposition is simple. Find people from all walks of MMO gaming, from casuals to the most elite, and from various games with various history and put them on payroll. Their purpose would just be to collaborate and give feedback on new content and suggestions on how to improve it before it's released, that's all. I'm not suggesting that they do anything else other than that. Obviously the hard core players should be the ones addressed about challenging endgame content, and the casuals lower end progression type content.

I think it's important to note, highly valuing customer feedback isn't a radical idea. Some of this games competitors it very seriously. Some games open beta test every one of their patches just to make sure people approve of the content. This is a much more costly solution that I doubt this game can afford however.

In the following pages filled with flames and trolling, the three biggest arguments and my responses to are as follows:

A= Argument R=Response (paraphrasing)
A: Gamers aren't qualified to make games, they don't know how to code and stuff.
R: Well that's not what I suggest they do, I'm suggesting their job would be correspondence and nothing else.

A: That's what community reps, the QA team, or the forums are for.
R: The community reps aren't enough. The quality assurance team tests for bugs and stuff like that. They have nothing to do with deciding if content will be fun or successful. The forums aren't a reliable source for a number of reasons. The forums are filled with trolls, and because so few XIV players post here things can get very clicky. Very few of the player base posts here, and of them that do post many are inexperienced with MMOs themselves. Trolls go on feeding frenzies with people who make suggestions, most people don't even bother. Who really knows how much information that the community reps hand pick on the English forums actually make it to those in charge in Japan anyway?

A: I'm stupid.
R: You're stupid.

A: You are just trying to get a job.
R: First of all I'm not stupid enough to think that they would ever read this thread. Second of all I already have a job, and I don't speak Japanese. So don't patronize me tyvm. I just want future content not to be idiotic.

A: So what's a real MMO player?
R: I consider someone who has spent a considerable amount of time on at least one title to be a real MMO player. If your looking for a specific answer Lets say 70-100days of actual logged on non-afk play time, that would be your more casual player. Less than that would just be like what we call a noob I guess. Anyone with a considerable amount of time on more than one title and at least 365 days of actual logged in play time at they keyboard and over 5 years experience playing MMOs would me the more hard core. Any more that that would be the elite.


In conclusion I doubt that this thread will ever make it to the eyes of anyone important, however I feel strongly about it so here it is anyway.

This is worth reading also.

[Noir]

They should put actual MMO players on the development team. The people on the design team have extremely limited knowledge with MMOs. Most of them don't even have any history of working on MMOs. I read that one of the conditions for being able to on the 2.0 staff was you had to play a MMO for a little bit to get a feel for how they work, but that isn't enough. They say they consider customer feedback, but I mean come on, how much do they really do that? Not much in my opinion based on the state of the game. Besides even if they wanted to read every post made it's not like they would ever have time, they're very busy. That's why in my opinion they should put actual MMO players on the team.

Maybe like 10 players, four from FFXIV, three from FFXI, and the rest from what ever other games they're trying to copy. Idk about putting people on staff to learn about other games though. That may be against international copyright law... If it is just stick with people who play FFXIV and FFXI.

They could consult them before ever doing anything stupid, and discuss with them what needs to be added or adjusted in the game. I mean, it's not like they would have to pay them much... How many of you would quit your job for a job to play your favorite game all day, even if it was just for minimum wage. I would.

Nonsense. They have ppl that play MMO helping them. Plus like yoshi said. You can't do both. Work at SE, and play an MMO 8 hours day. When do you sleep? Most of them were players before they got hired. When you get to work making games, usually you don't have time to play the games. Know what I mean?

[Hypnotic13371337]

i dont know about working ON the mmo but if they offered me a GM spot, i know i wouldent copy paste responces :l

[Mijin]

Nonsense. They have ppl that play MMO helping them. Plus like yoshi said. You can't do both. Work at SE, and play an MMO 8 hours day. When do you sleep? Most of them were players before they got hired. When you get to work making games, usually you don't have time to play the games. Know what I mean?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said; they don't have time to play so they need to hire people that do... And when you say most of them were players... Players of what? I know Yohi-P has mention playing Dark Age of Camelot and Diablo II, not really much help there. Even if some of them were casuals in the past I'm talking about putting hard core, basement dwelling, elitist mmoplayers on the staff who actually know how a MMO should work.

The DEV team has the technical skills needed but not the design sense... that's the #1 reason that this game has been suffering since day 1 imo. Granted Yoshi-P's teams doing a much better job, they may even salvage this game. However if they want to go above and beyond they're going to have to do better.

[Chardrizard]

No, MMO players tends to have a very biased opinion on what game they wants. It's difficult these days to find a player that are subjective.

The only thing they need is to hire someone that knows how to please majority of players and a way to maintain big playerbase for a longtime span in order to keep the game alive, you just can't please everyone either way.

[Mijin]

No, MMO players tends to have a very biased opinion on what game they wants.

Lol, and you have a very biased opinion about anything posted on these forums.

I think you're wrong though, when I talk to people about ideas I have for the game they're usually like "Yeah, that's a really good idea." I also feel my self very agreeable with suggestions that other people make about the game. Since the suggestions are coming from people who have a great deal of experience playing, they usually make sense.

If I wanted medical advice I'd ask the doctor, not the guy who makes the equipment he uses.

[Sephrick]

i dont know about working ON the mmo but if they offered me a GM spot, i know i wouldent copy paste responces :l

Or spell check them?

[Chardrizard]

i am biased and have my own ideal, but i am not the one here that wants to suggest things to the professional since i am lifeless and live under my granny's basement, so i know my place. I will suggest things from time to time at forum, but i will not get mad if they didnt read it (which they do because thats why we have community reps) and throw a hissy fit if they didnt implement my ideas.

People also thinks my idea of rainbow pooping pony is a good idea. Doesnt mean it will please majority, it might or it might not, but hey since people that have experience playing agrees it means the ideas are good right?

[Mijin]

i dont know about working ON the mmo but if they offered me a GM spot, i know i wouldent copy paste responces :l

Lol the reason they are forced to copy paste responses is because they are timed on each one of their responses and have to meet the expected time, and number of responses per week. The job of GM is usually outsourced to other countries to keep spending down, and that's why they usually speak crappy English. It's probably the case with FFXIV too, a lot of GM's on MMOs tend to be from Brazil they have low wage laws there but it's still a first world country so good internet and such. Regardless if that's the case or not customer support jobs are almost always out sourced, so you can rest assured when you talk to a GM you're probably not talking to someone who directly works for SE.

[Mijin]

i am biased and have my own ideal, but i am not the one here that wants to suggest things to the professional since i am lifeless and live under my granny's basement, so i know my place. I will suggest things from time to time at forum, but i will not get mad if they didnt read it (which they do because thats why we have community reps) and throw a hissy fit if they didnt implement my ideas.

People also thinks my idea of rainbow pooping pony is a good idea. Doesnt mean it will please majority, it might or it might not, but hey since people that have experience playing agrees it means the ideas are good right?

Well you're obviously frustrated, and that's why you're personally attacking me. I never said that I was lifeless or that I live in a basement, I was facetiously suggesting that type of person would be best suited for the job.

While each of them may be a great professional at what ever their position is on the team, being a professional computer programmer (pretty sure that's yoshi-p's degree may be wrong) doesn't make you a professional at content concepts, there is only one type of person who can be truly professional at that... The players. It could be left up to the marketing people to decided if it works or not for their profit needs.

By the way personal attacks are against ToS, have fun with you're impending ban. Also, if you get so upset and irate over my posts, instead of responding to every single one of them why don't you just block me instead of providing me with what I consider great entertainment.

(which they do because thats why we have community reps)

As far as I know, and I may be wrong, but the community reps don't get paid, and charity work isn't always the most efficient form of labor... Not only that who knows if anyone on the dev. team even reads or takes into consideration anything they forward over to them. It's not like the community reps make any of the shots.