MSQ Questing in response to Yoshida's interviews

[LisseyCrowe]

The attack on Tuliyollal and even the train sequence to an extent not being solo instances of combat still feels incredibly criminal to me, especially when the former would have been the easiest way in the world to not have the WoL and crew be present in the Throne Room events.

I get that these instances are far from the most engaging but they're also one of the easier ways to make the player's presence matter and also ... I mean it's a video game, there should be some game content. And they're certainly more engaging than listening to Wuk prattle on about peace and understanding for the 427th time. But seriously, while I don't want to suggest more limitations to go by, if there should be a dungeon every odd level, I feel like there should be a decently-sized solo instance every even level, or at least something every map "chapter". It doesn't have to be fighting either, many people proposed the cooking thing to be a mini-game in other threads/forums. Some of these ideas could even be used and expanded on through seasonal events.

Dawntrail delivering it's story almost entirely through reading, cut-scenes and the bare minimum of combat through mandatory odd level dungeons felt incredibly uninspired to me, and makes me wonder what people mean when they said "this expansion was about trying things". 'Cause depending on how I feel when you ask me sometimes it feels like the answer to that is "Well we tried doing nothing and it turns out people don't really like that".

[Raven2014]

They'll condense the msq going forward so get the next dungeon after 1 or 2 quests. They won't do overworld content which most people dislike already. Is fighting a wave of enemies in purple circles after every quest really going to improve the experience? No. Xiv has never had varied overworld content, much less during msq. The game that offers that is called Gw2.

It's not even about having actual content, but just ambience. And by that I don't means stuffs like lighting or visual, FF14 is great at those. But stuffs that make a zone feel alive, and not just a pretty pictures. And frankly it's not just GW2, most MMO I played does this better than FF14. For examples:

In WoW Wotlk, the Wyrmrest temple is a raging battleground that every time you visit you can feel the conflicting exploding around it.

In SW:kotor, go down to places like the undercity on Corrusant and you can witness various factions duking it out.


Another things is the expansion zones are often too big, pointlessly big even. This makes the few set pieces they have feel far and few in between. I feel 2.0 zones were much more focus and enjoyable because they were more alive. For example:

In Northen Thanalan, it feels like the bottom half of the map belongs to us, pushing to the top half and you got into empire territory. Same with Mor Dohna
In Eastern Shroud, most area is peaceful but going deep into Sylphic plan feels like a small expedition into a mystical land.
Samething for Aleport, despite being such a small map, it has two distinction when you're on the Maelstrom side of the gate or not.

Comparing that to the zone in DT and the DT just feels ... flat and static. Again, they looks pretty, but that's about it. There is no sense of ownership or large divide, they're just a big map with landmark scatter around filled with randomly placed monsters.

[Rueby]

I don't believe they actually nerfed it. They just added an easier version which you can select if you fail it the first time. However, old duties usually get a "Warrior of Light" buff generally.

Did you actually play it after they changed it? Because when I was running my alt through EW again they may have as well held my hand through it all on the normal difficulty. The objectives are much clearer, which to me was the charm point of that duty- to get lost in it. But maybe this is an unpopular opinion (and likely super biased because I put alot of personal significance to that duty)

Well I appreciated them in the sense they were commonplace in many games I played growing up. To see something like that in FFXIV or really any MMORPG seemed different than the standard here's an enemy, kill it for quest...
It doesn't feel like that to me, but I suppose that's because I actually watch the cutscenes and follow the story. I feel like if the story isn't really what you're itching for then it can lead to this desperation for something to break up the go to person and talk.

I also follow the story and the only time I ever skipped a thing was Hildi, because it's not my cup of tea. I've felt this way alot in EW and now way more in DT where I'm constantly forced to either read alot of text or listen to exposition dump/too much dialogue with nothing to break it up. I jokingly said to my friend they really put the walk in Endwalker. The escort was cute, but it overstayed its welcome for me. I think they were really excited for this new feature and wanted to use it alot which I don't blame them for, it's not a bad one.

But yeah I agree with you if the story isn't interesting people might ache for something different. I just am very particular about what I like, usually if my favorites or parts I'm interested in aren't on screen I'm kinda bored and wonder when they'd be.

I know what it feels like to want to do something other than "talk to this guy > talk to that guy > return to this".

...because I've experienced this feeling when skipping on an alt since it gets boring skipping for hours. But the game is not designed with skippers in mind and I don't experience this feeling at all my first time through while watching cutscenes.

I actually agree. This game is awful if you want to skip it, my experience comes from my hobby of creating alts to relive the MSQ again but EW effectively killed it. I've leveled around 11 alts with various levels of MSQ progression, 5 of them are actually caught up to EW. I don't mind it much on second playthroughs, even if I'm breezing through it, though I usually don't because I always seem to find something I missed on my first run etc.

However, I feel this often on my first playthrough, I need to engage in combat to take a break from all the talking. I don't enjoy unvoiced cutscenes, and it's why I'm on EN voices because it gives me a break from having to read. But I want to press buttons and actually play too...

DT is the worst for me, because I actually have no interest in the story but I keep hoping it gets better but it only seems to get worse....which makes me crave the dungeons/trials that people are on about. Aka the 'good stuff' supposedly.

[Carolingian]

The trials this expansion felt like perfect opportunities to add some gameplay variety but they just refuse to go for it. And it's not like they need to reinvent the wheel or anything, they could just look at already existing minigames and implement those at a few places in quests.

Like let us actually aim and shoot at the robots attacking the train like one of those Gold Saucer Gates. Let us try and catch an alpaca like it's a chocobo race. Let us dance at the Hanuhanu festival with a rhythm minigame like in the Firmament. I could go on but you get the point.

[Rekh]

It's not even about having actual content, but just ambience. And by that I don't means stuffs like lighting or visual, FF14 is great at those. But stuffs that make a zone feel alive, and not just a pretty pictures. And frankly it's not just GW2, most MMO I played does this better than FF14. For examples:

In WoW Wotlk, the Wyrmrest temple is a raging battleground that every time you visit you can feel the conflicting exploding around it.

In SW:kotor, go down to places like the undercity on Corrusant and you can witness various factions duking it out.


Another things is the expansion zones are often too big, pointlessly big even. This makes the few set pieces they have feel far and few in between. I feel 2.0 zones were much more focus and enjoyable because they were more alive. For example:

In Northen Thanalan, it feels like the bottom half of the map belongs to us, pushing to the top half and you got into empire territory. Same with Mor Dohna
In Eastern Shroud, most area is peaceful but going deep into Sylphic plan feels like a small expedition into a mystical land.
Samething for Aleport, despite being such a small map, it has two distinction when you're on the Maelstrom side of the gate or not.

Comparing that to the zone in DT and the DT just feels ... flat and static. Again, they looks pretty, but that's about it. There is no sense of ownership or large divide, they're just a big map with landmark scatter around filled with randomly placed monsters.

So you want fake destruction for the sake of it. That's worse than the current design. If you make an evironment that looks like it's going through conflict it better have the content to back it up. At that point you're asking for Gw2; it would be a completely different game; you'd have to sacrifice having leveling dungeons and more.

[Raven2014]

So you want fake destruction for the sake of it.

If you want to label having a better ambient and dynamic open world as "fake", then yes I want the fake. I think they're better than this real.

At that point you're asking for Gw2;

No, I'm not asking for GW2, I'm asking for what I think is a better experience.

it would be a completely different game; you'd have to sacrifice having leveling dungeons and more.

Idk, WoW had both open world and dungeon contents, sames goes SW:KOTOR, same goes for most MMO that I have played. Don't know why you talk like these things have to be mutual exclusive.

[Rekh]

If you want to label having a better ambient and dynamic open world as "fake", then yes I want the fake. I think they're better than this real.

You asked for a fake environment even if it doesn't have content in it.

It's not even about having actual content, but just ambience.
In WoW Wotlk, the Wyrmrest temple is a raging battleground that every time you visit you can feel the conflicting exploding around it.

Fake conflict without content.

No, I'm not asking for GW2, I'm asking for what I think is a better experience.

Then you're asking for Gw2, it's the mmorpg that does open world the best; of the big 4. world of warcraft doesn't even come close.
https://mmorpg.gg/mmos-for-explorati...mber%202014%20
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm...rld/?rdt=62199
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm..._has_the_best/

Idk, WoW had both open world and dungeon contents, sames goes SW:KOTOR, same goes for most MMO that I have played. Don't know why you talk like these things have to be mutual exclusive.

WoW? The mmorpg that had the exodus and only recently released a good expansion? If that's the quality you want; quantity over quality, then by all means, let's lower xiv's quality so we can have both dungeons and open world during the msq's launch. If you actually had a clue how a company's ran you'd know you can't just walk tell your workers they now have to add an extra project to their deliverables without removing something from it or by extending the project deadline. Clearly you're clueless how businesses are ran, much less about project management.

[Jeeqbit]

Did you actually play it after they changed it?

On alts, yes.

Because when I was running my alt through EW again they may have as well held my hand through it all on the normal difficulty. The objectives are much clearer, which to me was the charm point of that duty- to get lost in it. But maybe this is an unpopular opinion (and likely super biased because I put alot of personal significance to that duty)

Maybe. I suppose I didn't notice it being clearer since I assumed I was lost in exploring the whole place the first time regardless.

And although it maybe feels slightly easier I think this is just because I know what to do and where everything is and how to navigate through it efficiently. A lot of things in this game feel easier when you repeat them because of knowing what to do after all.

I think they were really excited for this new feature and wanted to use it alot which I don't blame them for, it's not a bad one.

I think that's really it right there. It's something they developed and it's only logical a developer doesn't want to waste their new feature.

But it could help if they come up with some similar ideas to mix in with it, even if they're from traditional single player games that MMORPGs don't normally copy, and bring those into the MMORPG genre in a similar way, to shake up the concept of killing enemies and picking up/handing over items that MMORPGs have done for decades.

[Reimmi]

I leveled an alt recently and arr questing was very refreshing compared to the SHb-Ew-Dt era of visual novels
there is kill quests constantly and it feels more like na actual MMO
i'd love to see more of that especilally in slower parts of the story.

[LisseyCrowe]

WoW? The mmorpg that had the exodus and only recently released a good expansion? If that's the quality you want; quantity over quality, then by all means, let's lower xiv's quality so we can have both dungeons and open world during the msq's launch. If you actually had a clue how a company's ran you'd know you can't just walk tell your workers they now have to add an extra project to their deliverables without removing something from it or by extending the project deadline. Clearly you're clueless how businesses are ran, much less about project management.

Yes. WoW definitely just had its first good expansion. The people before the exodus stuck around for so long despite every expansion being low quality trash, and somehow all had enough specifically in Shadowlands as well as around the same time we all learned how terrible a place to work at was Blizzard. It was all a coincidence and there's nothing at all to learn from WoW and all of its low quality content that totally did not lead to it being the king of the MMO landscape for so long.

I also struggle to understand what you mean by fake content. FF14's overworld is as fake as it gets. Nothing actually exists here. Any and all content is tied to stuff magically spawning out of thin air to be cleared, be it quest objectives or FATEs. Are you actually defending for the overworld to remain ... empty?

Like, seriously? And maybe if they spent more times thinking about quality overworld content, the quest design wouldn't struggle as much to give the player anything at all to do other than click for the next dialogue box.