Picto makes the game less fun

[Carighan]

Forcing domination of the selfish jobs is just boring

This idea that damage output is everything and hence the "pure" jobs are automatically "dominating" because they do more damage needs to die. To quote that right back at you.

The whole idea is that while damage ouput is measured as a number, non-damage output is not done so, but as it exists, it has to be taken into account into the whole package. As in, a Red Mage's rezzing and defensive ability are helping the raid, just not as a number you can later look at in a pretty chart. Does that personally upset you in some deeply emotional way?

[Supersnow845]

This idea that damage output is everything and hence the "pure" jobs are automatically "dominating" because they do more damage needs to die. To quote that right back at you.

The whole idea is that while damage ouput is measured as a number, non-damage output is not done so, but as it exists, it has to be taken into account into the whole package. As in, a Red Mage's rezzing and defensive ability are helping the raid, just not as a number you can later look at in a pretty chart. Does that personally upset you in some deeply emotional way?

This would imply that the jobs are remotely balanced based on the actual contribution their non damage utility brings and not just have it haphazardly thrown into different classes balanced on the axis of damage only

If there was clearly defined paradigms of how much utility is “worth” and jobs were balanced relative to that that would be fine, but jobs are balanced purely on damage (except for rezz), everything else just sort of exists and doesn’t play into how they balance anything

And then there is the argument of what actually constitutes utility, does VPR’s insane disconnection ability count as utility? Should it be taxed for it? What about SAM’s less mobility compared to the other melee. The only paradigm they can seem to actually stick to is taxing rezz harshly

[AmiableApkallu]

If there was clearly defined paradigms of how much utility is “worth” and jobs were balanced relative to that that would be fine, but jobs are balanced purely on damage (except for rezz), everything else just sort of exists and doesn’t play into how they balance anything

And then there is the argument of what actually constitutes utility, does VPR’s insane disconnection ability count as utility? Should it be taxed for it? What about SAM’s less mobility compared to the other melee. The only paradigm they can seem to actually stick to is taxing rezz harshly

If anything, Raise is probably the easiest of the "utilities" to assign a value. To start, the "official" definition of rDPS:

rDPS stands for "raid-contributing DPS", and it is measuring how much damage you actually brought to the raid. The formula for it is:

rDPS = DPS - (damage gained from others' external buffs) + (damage given to others by your own external buffs)

"We" simply need to recognize that "HP > 0" is itself a damage buff. After all, someone without it deals no damage.

The relative simplicity of Raise here is that it straight-up applies the buff if it has fallen off. It's likely a bit much to credit all of a newly-Raised player's damage to the one who cast the Raise, but surely some credit is deserved.

[BabyYoda]

This idea that damage output is everything and hence the "pure" jobs are automatically "dominating" because they do more damage needs to die. To quote that right back at you.

The whole idea is that while damage ouput is measured as a number, non-damage output is not done so, but as it exists, it has to be taken into account into the whole package. As in, a Red Mage's rezzing and defensive ability are helping the raid, just not as a number you can later look at in a pretty chart. Does that personally upset you in some deeply emotional way?

to solve the issue of pure DPS jobs and utility jobs is to have main roles that is specialized in one thing only and each main role have jobs that perform the same thing but differently..

Pure DPS: should be a pure damage with no utility
Support DPS: should be less damage and have specific utility that Pure DPS won't have (rezz, buffs, debuffs)
Healers: the only job that should have heals that can keep people alive after raidwide attacks
Tanks: the only job that can mitigate high-damage attacks from boss.

I feel like we currently having tanks doing their work perfectly fine but it also do healers jobs too.
support dps jobs are doing same damage as pure DPS jobs and they also do some kind of replacement for healers along side tanks.

all tanks can mitigate tank busters but their doing mitigation should be different.
all pure dps should do high damage dps but how they do dps should be different
all supports should do same thing but different
all healers should heal and shield but they should do it differently

in this way I believe we can find a good balance to current design