Picto makes the game less fun

[GoatOfWar]

This is in no way a bad thing. Let the players who want the easy jobs play the easy jobs, and let the players who want the more challenging jobs play the more challenging jobs. Everyone gets what they want.

And how would that be any different if the training wheel jobs performed slightly worse if optimised compared to the other jobs?
I genuinely do not understand why this is such a painful topic for so many people. Nobody wants to be penalised or handicapped.
Vpr and Picto make me actively not want to raid. Knowing it could be so much easier and i'd do strictly better. Am i speaking French?
People do NOT want to work harder for nothing. It's something you're going to have to accept. Either all jobs are braindead or the majority of people will flock to the braindead jobs which will result in further simplification to all jobs as they become unpopular. We have seen this happen countless times. VPR has a tank dps rotation without any of the tank responsibilities, and not a single job mechanic to track.
One will always be better than the other if you do not reasonably balance around job difficulty. Vpr sees more than double the amount of players than the next most played melee, and i'm seeing zero reason to play anything other than Vpr.

''You play whats fun is the reward'' is i think, to put it bluntly, the most retarded thing i've read all day. Because these jobs are competing for a slot.. A handicap is not a reward.
And since you're inadvertedly okay with the players playing more accessible jobs doing more damage than the others most of the time -by being easier and featuring less fail states. Why can't harder jobs do higher damage by a similar margin when mastered and those failstates are overcome?

[CaedemSanguis]

Vpr and Picto make me actively not want to raid.

Then your not a raider

[ShadowNyx3]

''You play whats fun is the reward'' is i think, to put it bluntly, the most retarded thing i've read all day. Because these jobs are competing for a slot.. A handicap is not a reward.?

A lot of people don't know this, and clearly you've never experienced it, but there are in fact raid groups where people support their teammates and let them play whatever they want because they are all trying to have fun.

Perhaps you wouldn't need to project your distaste with raiding by shitting on other people having fun if you could learn how to have fun playing the video game yourself?

[GoatOfWar]

A lot of people don't know this, and clearly you've never experienced it, but there are in fact raid groups where people support their teammates and let them play whatever they want because they are all trying to have fun.

Perhaps you wouldn't need to project your distaste with raiding by shitting on other people having fun if you could learn how to have fun playing the video game yourself?

I don't care if you want to play the training wheels job. That's perfectly fine with me.
But when i start doing a savage and realise that everything i'm doing would have been easier, and secured me better numbers if i played the melee dps with a tank dps rotation and lack of any job mechanic no matter how hard i try i get a bad taste in my mouth. You can have all the fun on Vpr you want. I don't judge you, but i take issue with the way this job works in relation to the other jobs it's competing with.

[Carighan]

And how would that be any different if the training wheel jobs performed slightly worse if optimised compared to the other jobs?
I genuinely do not understand why this is such a painful topic for so many people. Nobody wants to be penalised or handicapped.
Vpr and Picto make me actively not want to raid. Knowing it could be so much easier and i'd do strictly better. Am i speaking French?

Well, why don't you play those easier jobs then? Since as you just said, nobody wants to be penalised or handicapped?

[GoatOfWar]

Well, why don't you play those easier jobs then? Since as you just said, nobody wants to be penalised or handicapped?

I can't exchange my savage gear.

[Wayfinder3]

And how would that be any different if the training wheel jobs performed slightly worse if optimised compared to the other jobs?
I genuinely do not understand why this is such a painful topic for so many people. Nobody wants to be penalised or handicapped.
Vpr and Picto make me actively not want to raid. Knowing it could be so much easier and i'd do strictly better. Am i speaking French?
People do NOT want to work harder for nothing. It's something you're going to have to accept. Either all jobs are braindead or the majority of people will flock to the braindead jobs which will result in further simplification to all jobs as they become unpopular. We have seen this happen countless times. VPR has a tank dps rotation without any of the tank responsibilities, and not a single job mechanic to track.
One will always be better than the other if you do not reasonably balance around job difficulty. Vpr sees more than double the amount of players than the next most played melee, and i'm seeing zero reason to play anything other than Vpr.

''You play whats fun is the reward'' is i think, to put it bluntly, the most retarded thing i've read all day. Because these jobs are competing for a slot.. A handicap is not a reward.
And since you're inadvertedly okay with the players playing more accessible jobs doing more damage than the others most of the time -by being easier and featuring less fail states. Why can't harder jobs do higher damage by a similar margin when mastered and those failstates are overcome?

I think it's silly you want PCT nerfed because it makes you feel invalidated as a BLM. you can run them together, they do not occupy the same niche in comps that choose to take 2 casters. the 4th slot in a raid does not HAVE to go to melee dps. why would you want pct nerfed so that now, the only caster worth taking after prog is BLM. this becomes even worse when you consider pct doesn't have a raise. You're fighting the wrong fight, we need to get Red Mage at least and and Summoner to a lesser extent more comeptitive with the Melee like BLM and PCT are. there are 4 casters and only 2 possible slots for them. Jesus this is insane. This is the best double caster has been in years and you're actually trying to take us back to meleewalkers. Granted blm was the best dps in the game then so maybe thats your angle.

also what would a pct do if it was objectively worse than black mage. why would you bring it? for a extremely situational heal and a super weak shield thats like 10% mit on a 2 min cd. is that really worth being worse than black mage? is it smudge? Also easy to play, have any of you actually optimized pictomancer, like pushed it to it's limit. the job has alot of depth and has high skill expression. it is very easy to see a good PCT from a bad one just like black mage. I can understand wanting pct to be toned down in relationship to all the other classes in the game cause it was bonkers before savage dropped but seriously, why would you ever want your best chance at running a competitive double caster comp to be worse than the standard melee dominated crap we've had since shadowbringers. double caster hasn't been this potentially good in a long time. Black mage can be a part of that, we need to get rdm and smn involved. maybe talk about getting the other ranged classes some love. not screaming that the 2nd best ranged class in the entire game isn't the best.

[PercibelTheren]

''You play whats fun is the reward'' is i think, to put it bluntly, the most retarded thing i've read all day. Because these jobs are competing for a slot.. A handicap is not a reward.
And since you're inadvertedly okay with the players playing more accessible jobs doing more damage than the others most of the time -by being easier and featuring less fail states. Why can't harder jobs do higher damage by a similar margin when mastered and those failstates are overcome?

I feel the same way about "more complex jobs should put out more damage" because that take makes literally no sense. FFXIV is a game. The primary purpose of games is fun. The vast majority of the playerbase picks their main jobs based on enjoyment. Not everyone is a hardcore sweaty raider who picks their job for the tier based on statistics.

When I mained healer last expansion, I chose Astro over White Mage specifically because I found it more engaging and satisfying. A job being engaging is not a handicap, it's a feature. Because some people prefer chill jobs where they don't have to think about stuff too much, some people like optimising and learning how to execute their rotations while dodging mechanics. There are also people who enjoy both under different circumstances. This is why there are jobs of varying difficulties, at least within the DPS role.

The "competing for a slot" argument is also silly unless you're going for week 1 clears (which almost nobody is). PF is weird about it at times but I have very rarely heard of statics forcing people to play the current FotM job just because it hits slightly harder.

[Wayfinder3]

This depends on the engagement. Summoner’s original pet system was very poorly handled and jank and necessitated engagement. Gunbreaker continuation is to this day super clunky because of how it really restrains the classes ability to position the boss in more demanding encounters like M1s and M2s.

Features can absolutely be bad, and not well thought out. Just because something is engaging doesn’t mean it’s good.

[GoatOfWar]

The "competing for a slot" argument is also silly unless you're going for week 1 clears (which almost nobody is). PF is weird about it at times but I have very rarely heard of statics forcing people to play the current FotM job just because it hits slightly harder.

I don't find it particularly ''fun'' to have my choice in jobs invalidated by one that's the easiest to play in the entire game.
And you can only pick one job for weeks on end because of weekly loot restrictions. So yes, they ARE competing for a slot.
You have to commit to a job because otherwise you fall behind.