Picto makes the game less fun

[ovIm]

"With the release of 7.0, however, we noticed that the DPS of the new job Pictomancer clearly stood out from the other classes. We could have nerfed Pictomancer before the raid, but since many people liked playing it so much, we decided to bring the DPS of the other classes into line with that of Pictomancer."
Interview it came from - https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...n_savage_tier/

They have a track record of this with RPR being released in EW. It was substantially stronger than the other melee in the 1st tier and after a few balance patches it became slightly behind them after they buffed the other jobs instead of nerfing RPR.

I have read this interview too. Honestly, that sounds like typical Yoshi-PR speak, really, and I don't believe a single word of it.

[Atmaweapon510]

"With the release of 7.0, however, we noticed that the DPS of the new job Pictomancer clearly stood out from the other classes. We could have nerfed Pictomancer before the raid, but since many people liked playing it so much, we decided to bring the DPS of the other classes into line with that of Pictomancer."
Interview it came from - https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...n_savage_tier/

They have a track record of this with RPR being released in EW. It was substantially stronger than the other melee in the 1st tier and after a few balance patches it became slightly behind them after they buffed the other jobs instead of nerfing RPR.

RPR was an incredibly egregious case that led to the gigantic damage disparity between ranged and melee. They buffed the other melees so much that by the end of the expansion, they ended up buffing Reaper because it fell behind. That's right, after every other melee job was buffed ahead of the benchmark, the benchmark itself got buffed and ranged got crumbs inbetween this compared to melee. The disparity was originally 5% and went to 10% because of those buffs, which then caused the P8S dps check debacle where bringing enough "wrong" jobs like RDM/MCH was a near guaranteed dps check fail with bad RNG.

We're seeing shades of this again because melee got more substantial buffs than ranged again. The problem hasn't been made apparent because the dps check is so lenient, but if M4S had P8S balancing, Dawntrail would have been completely dead on arrival. So basically, not hammering down that one nail will cause a host of issues that cascade throughout the expansion and make them waste more time inbetween each patch trying to balance every other job and role.

[PercibelTheren]

"With the release of 7.0, however, we noticed that the DPS of the new job Pictomancer clearly stood out from the other classes. We could have nerfed Pictomancer before the raid, but since many people liked playing it so much, we decided to bring the DPS of the other classes into line with that of Pictomancer."
Interview it came from - https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...n_savage_tier/

I got a lot of hate for pointing this out on Reddit, but I just don't understand how a job losing some potency here and there would make playing it less fun. I'm pretty sure barely anyone besides people who like chasing numbers on the funny website would even notice the changes. And the people who do like chasing numbers on the funny website should understand that the jobs being more or less comparable in damage output is a desirable state.

[BabyYoda]

I got a lot of hate for pointing this out on Reddit, but I just don't understand how a job losing some potency here and there would make playing it less fun. I'm pretty sure barely anyone besides people who like chasing numbers on the funny website would even notice the changes. And the people who do like chasing numbers on the funny website should understand that the jobs being more or less comparable in damage output is a desirable state.

It is a PR game nothing else

Yoshi think that in this way he will be justifiable.. and I don't think this is working

[Zakuyia]

It's simply a balance issue and the devs are too afraid of the backlash from nerfing the popular and new job so they're once again opting to buff every other job. And because they chose the route that's not as easy as simply nerfing 1 job they're probably going to take a few more balance patches to get it somewhat right.

Oh im call bs on this cause dancer got nerfed during shadow bringer. At one point u could literally time standard and technical into a looping rotation but they increase its time cause it was too powerful and i believe dancer potency got adjusted during shadow bringer cause it was way powerful back then vs now.

[Tunda]

1.5 GCD do more damage than 2.87 GCD job
what a joke balance in this game

more utility and more sustain

is there a testing phase in FFXIV development cycle?

[LilimoLimomo]

Now, pretty much every time I boot up the game I have to hear some meme teasing me for not swapping to picto over black mage.

There will always be myopic kiddos who fall into the elitist mindset of thinking that damage output is the be-all and end-all of playing FF14; these players have forgotten that playing a game is about having fun. Do you enjoy BLM more than PCT? Then play BLM, have a good time, and let the chatter of folks with misaligned priorities wash off your back.

An MMO is healthier when there are classes that can be played easily and classes that offer more of a challenge; that way, players who are looking for different levels of challenge with their core class can all play the same content together. I can easily do more damage when I play Summoner compared to Black Mage, but most of the time I don't find Summoner engaging; Black Mage requires so much more from me, and because of that I perform worse, but I find it so much more engaging and rewarding to play. Being able to deal more damage doesn't matter if you're having less fun doing it.

None of this is to say that balance is entirely unimportant; there is most certainly a balance to strike. But I don't necessarily think that more challenging jobs should have better damage output than easier jobs. The most important thing is that all jobs are viable, and that different difficulties of jobs are available so that people with different tastes can all play together.

[GoatOfWar]

But I don't necessarily think that more challenging jobs should have better damage output than easier jobs.

That's a good way to make people abandon more challenging jobs which will then inevitably result in simplification, as we've seen before. If there's no reward for your efforts, why bother?
If you seriously think people just arbitrarily want to work harder for less reward, or equal at a maximum, i think you might want to talk to some people who actually play those jobs.
It's such a bizarre idealistic take, usually held by people playing the jobs that conveniently are notoriously easy.
What you'll inevitably end up with in practice is everyone flocking to the training wheels job instead. As people don't want to be penalised.

[LilimoLimomo]

That's a good way to make people abandon more challenging jobs which will then inevitably result in simplification, as we've seen before. If there's no reward for your efforts, why bother?

There is a reward for your efforts: you get to play the class that you actually enjoy instead of feeling bored by a class that doesn't engage you. Playing a class you don't enjoy just because it has higher damage numbers is a fantastic way to waste your own time and energy.

If you seriously think people just arbitrarily want to work harder for less reward, or equal at a maximum, i think you might want to talk to some people who actually play those jobs.

If playing the game feels like "work" to you, then you're probably playing the wrong job or the wrong game. When it comes to enjoying game systems, there's usually a balance to strike: too easy and you'll get bored, but too challenging and it can feel like work. But when you find that sweet spot between the two that perfectly aligns with your subjective tastes? Man, that's such a nice feeling. That's a huge part of why I play this games. And I'm not alone in that; the existence of Extremes, Savages, and Ultimates is a testament to the fact that many players enjoy challenge.

I can't get that great feeling on other DPS. I've mained Black Mage since ARR, and in my opinion it's the most beautifully designed class in the game; to me, there's nothing that compares to how enjoyable it is to play. The numbers that pop up when I deal damage are just a contrivance; the feeling of actually playing Black Mage is what I'm here for.

What you'll inevitably end up with in practice is everyone flocking to the training wheels job instead. As people don't want to be penalised.

This is in no way a bad thing. Let the players who want the easy jobs play the easy jobs, and let the players who want the more challenging jobs play the more challenging jobs. Everyone gets what they want.

[GoatOfWar]

This is in no way a bad thing. Let the players who want the easy jobs play the easy jobs, and let the players who want the more challenging jobs play the more challenging jobs. Everyone gets what they want.

And how would that be any different if the training wheel jobs performed slightly worse if optimised compared to the other jobs?
I genuinely do not understand why this is such a painful topic for so many people. Nobody wants to be penalised or handicapped.
Vpr and Picto make me actively not want to raid. Knowing it could be so much easier and i'd do strictly better. Am i speaking French?
People do NOT want to work harder for nothing. It's something you're going to have to accept. Either all jobs are braindead or the majority of people will flock to the braindead jobs which will result in further simplification to all jobs as they become unpopular. We have seen this happen countless times. VPR has a tank dps rotation without any of the tank responsibilities, and not a single job mechanic to track.
One will always be better than the other if you do not reasonably balance around job difficulty. Vpr sees more than double the amount of players than the next most played melee, and i'm seeing zero reason to play anything other than Vpr.

''You play whats fun is the reward'' is i think, to put it bluntly, the most retarded thing i've read all day. Because these jobs are competing for a slot.. A handicap is not a reward.
And since you're inadvertedly okay with the players playing more accessible jobs doing more damage than the others most of the time -by being easier and featuring less fail states. Why can't harder jobs do higher damage by a similar margin when mastered and those failstates are overcome?