What to do about the scions / potential msq spoilers

[Strife_Elvedor]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to create a post discussing the scions this expansion. I’ve seen a lot of disdain towards Wuk recently but one of my biggest issues with the msq was the fact that scions felt like extras with Alphinaud collecting wood and being complimented for it, estinien stabbing the ground to somehow kill a ton of creatures and thancred and Urianger not really playing much of a role outside of the contest for the throne.

My thoughts are that I would rather A) developers write off the scions by giving them an excuse to leave or B) actually give them dialogue and a reason to stick around. One of my biggest gripes with Wuk’s character outside of her being a copycat of Lyse (caring about her people being 80% of her personality) is that she took the limelight the whole expansion.

It makes sense to have her around as an excuse to be in Tural but at the very least, the developers could’ve split screen time and dialogue with a fairer distribution. It felt like every other cutscene involved the scions walking off for no real reason.

I feel like Krile carries the second half of the expansion and the first half of the expansion are carried by the different competitors. With that being said I feel like the second half of the story could’ve been an expansion in itself.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on how the scions were used this expansion. Did you still enjoy them being around or did they feel mostly irrelevant like background npcs to you too? Would you have liked to see more Wuk, more scions, more of both or just a balanced distribution of screen time?

Overall the expansion was good. There were high points as well as lows for me. I really enjoyed the different twists in the contest. The outcome was predictable though and I kinda wish Koana could’ve become a full time scion instead as it would be nice to have a ranged physical scion with us.

Side note: I feel like Xero could’ve really developed this expansion learning through the journey with different cultures and the various types of personalities in the world.

Try and keep it friendly with eachother in the thread. I just want to see different perspectives

Thanks,

Strife.

[Yaskaleh]

to me, they must decide between two paths for the Scions after how they were used in DT:

1. Utilize them faithfully to their character as their depiction in Dt was very off putting

2. Partially retire them and make new companions.

I prefer 1, I love the scions. I don't think our journey with them are over and they still have lots to do imo. The twins need to grow up physically, Thancred gotta reunite with his "daughter", Y'shtola be able to see her friends in the First etc. Even more important, for G'raha to be able to see his people in the First again, to see his adoptive granddaughter again. Hell, anything involving the First + Scions will be an instant 10/10 for me.

[Aurumis]

to me, they must decide between two paths for the Scions after how they were used in DT:

1. Utilize them faithfully to their character as their depiction in Dt was very off putting

2. Partially retire them and make new companions.

I prefer 1, I love the scions. I don't think our journey with them are over and they still have lots to do imo. The twins need to grow up physically, Thancred gotta reunite with his "daughter", Y'shtola be able to see her friends in the First etc. Even more important, for G'raha to be able to see his people in the First again, to see his adoptive granddaughter again. Hell, anything involving the First + Scions will be an instant 10/10 for me.

Fully agree. Besides, if we are going to other reflections in the future it doesn't make sense to retire them. Why would they retire? In any case we have new companions in each expansion and the screentime shared fairly not like the fucking shit we got with Wuk Lamat. I want well written characters and well written stories like before. It was all so badly handled that I can only hate DT.

[Carin-Eri]

I'll start by saying I'm not in the "Dawntrail sucks" camp. I actually really enjoyed it. Not as much as Endwalker/Shadowbringers but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

However, discussing the Scions in specific - I do feel they were poorly used. They didn't really feel like the people we'd shared so much time and experienced so much with. It, sadly, did feel as if their inclusion was literally to tick the 'Trusts' box and because they appeared in the trailers/cinematics.

Can only hope that the fact that the Warrior of Light/Scions have the 'key' that displayed Azem's symbol will make them relevant again.

[BigBoom550]

Yeah, they need to figure out what they're doing.

My *personal* suggestion would be to rotate the Scions. Have, say, G'raha, Estinien, and Krile with you for most of an expac as the 'dungeon' party with a few local characters for trials *if* you have Trust trials (personally I think that should have been reserved for Hydaelyn).

Cycle the other Scions in and out as relevant, in smaller roles. Next expac it's the Twins and Thancred.

I get that people are tired of the Scions. I'm personally not, and dropping them fast makes no sense. That said, moving them in and out of the narrative- there but not omnipresent- feels like a healthy middle ground. Scion assemlies can be reserved for The Big Stuff. Otherwise, say, Thancred has you pop back for a quest or two and you work with Urianger and Y'shtola to crack the secrets of the new plot device then it's back to the main cast.

[Jeeqbit]

one of my biggest issues with the msq was the fact that scions felt like extras with Alphinaud collecting wood and being complimented for it

Well that's fine to me, really. I liked the focus being on newer characters.

estinien stabbing the ground to somehow kill a ton of creatures

That sort of thing has always happened, especially with Dragoons. There is nothing particularly realistic about how Dragoons work, especially in this game. In real you could do pole jumping by doing a run and using a pole to propel you high, which is an olympic sport I've watched, but even this isn't part of many of the jump animations.

It's largely meant to be put down to his connection to nidhogg and the eyes, despite that they no longer exist, so my guess is just he absorbed some of its power and kept it and this aether acts as a form of magic that he has mastered.

caring about her people being 80% of her personality

I don't get why people have a problem with someone caring. Like, there are certain people in this world that really should do that more.

It felt like every other cutscene involved the scions walking off for no real reason.

Let's be honest. They wanted the scions to be there slightly for use as Duty Support in dungeons/trials.

They probably also wanted to write them out mostly but not entirely in case players are attached to them and want to see them around still.

I feel like the second half of the story could’ve been an expansion in itself.

Well it could, but the problem was the second part was also Wuk Lamat's story. She was Dawnservant already, yes, but had she truly beaten Zoraal Ja? They had now made a rival nation with their values and attacked Tuliyollal so it had become rather personal and it needed to be settled.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on how the scions were used this expansion. Did you still enjoy them being around or did they feel mostly irrelevant like background npcs to you too?

I was glad they were hardly used. I think they cleverly used them without them necessarily being around us much ie. Thancred having a significant role but not one that involves spending time with us and same with Estinien. It's actually pretty clever to use them while also achieving people's request of them not being around you.

I do think that the build up was not good though. Obviously Wuk Lamat's introduction was too quick in 6.55. I suppose I can accept how Thancred and Urianger got there. But Estinien "just happening" to go to Tural at the same time as us wasn't believable. I'd much rather he just "heard" that we were going and decided to go too in secret because he's a shy loner type person. In fact, maybe I'll just believe that's what happened now.

The outcome was predictable though

Let's be honest; the outcome of most stories is predictable. The protagonist wins! It's really about the how and the twist and the turns along the way and those did surprise me. I actually was spoiled on who the first two trial bosses were and the last one was easy to guess for me, yet I still didn't predict how we would end up facing them nor the circumstances in which we did.

[Strife_Elvedor]

I agree with the predictability I mean look at heavensward. That expansion was religion, dragons and a medieval setting which is the standard from a fantasy rpg tradition stance.

I’m not saying ignore new characters but to try and find a balance so the expansions isn’t solely about them.

I have nothing against people having a caring personality but it felt like a story we’d already lived through with Lyse.

Yeah I personally feel like Estinien is kept around for fan service at this point. I kinda wish they kept doing comedic scenes with his awkwardness like in Endwalker though but there was far less of that this time.

It kinda felt like most of the scions lost their personalities because of the scrips they were given.

I personally feel like they could’ve finished wuk’s story with the completion celebration but then have Wuk request the Wol’s help to go into the golden city whilst she remain to settle things down in the city.

I actually found the setup for Estinien to be somewhat believable as a lone adventurer without a set destination. I felt like the bombardmemt of the competition in the first place felt out of place and would rather have had the scions travel to rural just to experience total and then get involved through happenstance

And it’s okay to not agree with me. I just wanted to see what other people are thinking so thank you for commenting

[Natalyah]

If the Scions retire, so shall I.

[PercibelTheren]

Personally, I like the Scions. I like some more than others, but I don't outright dislike any of them. I would have no issue if they stuck with us in future stories, though I would like the cast to continue expanding. I believe Erenville was successful addition, for example. I would love if we went back to some of the older expansion scions, like Hoary Boulder and Coultenet.

I also think how the Scions were handled in Dawntrail was horrendous. They felt like cardboard cutouts of themselves and half the time I was convinced they only showed up for Trust dungeons. It was to the point that I wished they hadn't been included at all. The only time I was legitimately excited in the entire expansion was when I got to see my them being cool and helping fight off the invasion on Tural.

I'd be OK if the Scions took more of a backseat but maybe remained in side quests, raid and trial quest lines and stuff, on the condition that we would get compelling new characters in their stead. Unfortunately, SE have a horrific track record of newer companion NPCs between Zero and Wuk Lamat. They were cool as concepts but turned out feeling like someone's OCs (do not steal).