Thread: 7.0 What if WoL rode the train?

Originally Posted by Cleretic

Okay, so essentially your view is that whatever the story becomes by altering it, it will warp in such a way that the WoL will win.

No, you have wildly misunderstood what I was saying, because that is not my view. I'm simply saying that we need to be consistent. It is not consistent to tie ourselves to the unnatural contrivances of the writers in one context, but to depart from them in another. For any single conversation, we should flip the switch on or off.

To frame that to the current conversation: if we are going to depart from the contrived inevitability of the Warrior of Light's inevitable success, then we should also depart from the contrived notion that the Warrior of Light doesn't pick up the McGuffin of Power and instead lets the big bad slowly walk up to it and pick it up. These two things are part of the same package.

Zoraal Ja gets killed by the Warrior of Light, so the WoL is right next to him when he dies and drops the McGuffin of Power, ergo we pick it up because this isn't our first rodeo. Sphene's welcome to try to take it from us, but considering that her body is limited to the capabilities of robots that even a chump like Bakool Ja Ja can casually kill by the dozen, I don't see her being able to contend with us.

Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Zoraal Ja gets killed by the Warrior of Light, so the WoL is right next to him when he dies and drops the McGuffin of Power, ergo we pick it up because this isn't our first rodeo. Sphene's welcome to try to take it from us, but considering that her body is limited to the capabilities of robots that even a chump like Bakool Ja Ja can casually kill by the dozen, I don't see her being able to contend with us.

Okay, then if your argument isn't about the story forcing itself to be in the same shape, it needs to answer these barriers, which will continue to exist, and are not actually solved by the WoL being your take-no-crap idealized self-insert now.

1. Sphene uses telekinesis to take the key, she never touches it.
2. Sphene is never actually in any of the sentries, so it doesn't matter how many of them you kill; she is in the Meso Terminal.
3. Even if you can fly through the portal, you can't get into the Meso Terminal, because Cahciua isn't dead yet.
4. In the astronomically unlikely chance that you get into the Meso Terminal despite this, I kind of imagine your WoL was not so friendly towards Sphene that she opens up and stops the onslaught in the Queen Eternal fight. So she's probably overpowering you, but I understand that out of all the barriers, this is the one that an idealized take-no-crap self-insert WoL has a decent chance to overcome.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

the WoL being your take-no-crap idealized self-insert now

Interpreting "doing the obvious thing" as "idealized" seems hyperbolic.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

1. Sphene uses telekinesis to take the key, she never touches it.

I think this is the big question, because whether this is overcome or not determines whether the rest of the questions are even on the table.

I'm curious where the telekinesis comes from and how much range it has. The fact that Sphene doesn't "pick it up" until her robot body is right next to it suggests to me that some aspect of the telekinesis may require that a robot be within a close proximity.

Also, pretty much everyone who can do things with aether has telekinesis. There have been numerous occasions where either the WoL or others move objects by simply holding out their hand. So it's not like Sphene is demonstrating some manner of capability that we lack here.

And if it comes down to a telekinesis tug-of-war, my best guess is that the Warrior of Light would be the victor, because Sphene was designed to be a motherly caretaker, not a construction worker. Which is to say, I think of the two, the Warrior of Light is the more likely to be able to increase the strength of their telekinesis to surpass that of the other.

So whether we simply pick it up or have to wrest it from her telekinetic grasp, I genuinely don't see any reason why she would be able to take it.

I think the conversation is getting a bit dragged into the weeds. I do think the WoL with or without the aid of the Scions would likely be able to find and end Zoraal Ja within the dome. What comes after though is a huge guess. With or without the relic, Sphene and the Alexandrians are a huge threat. I would also agree that without a son born to him, the command of the military would revert back to Sphene. However, considering this would all be happening much sooner timetable wise within the bubble, it is possible that Sphene would be even more open to discussion on the matter. Or given that she has less restrictions on her authority, she would be less open. It's a bit of a toss up. Ultimately, Sphene has more power and we have less information and no insider informant; but Living Memory has consumed less resources thus far.

If we break it down in terms of expected instances for an expansion then we would be short 2 trials and 2 or 3 dungeons at this point. I think Zoraal Ja would either be a final boss of a dungeon or a synced instance fight. Though if there is a dungeon inside the dome at this point, it would stand to reason that either WoL made quick capable friends inside or used the Azem crystal. Either way, it would be known that contact outside the dome doesn't work (largely due to the time distortion, though WoL may not know that yet).