Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Terhix]

WoW and XIV can be compared but we shouldn't forget despite sharing similarities, they're apples and oranges.

You can absolutely compare the fact that having had a similar problem, nerfing not one but all tanks, and not once but twice, not only hasn't lead to a massive exodus of players that Anjou alluded, but the expansions ended up being massively popular.

[CKNovel]

You can absolutely compare the fact that having had a similar problem, nerfing not one but all tanks, and not once but twice, not only hasn't lead to a massive exodus of players that Anjou alluded, but the expansions ended up being massively popular.

Yes, but is it the case here? I don't think so.
Even Post nerf, WoW tanks sustain is still way above what XIV tanks can do.
The nerf was around 50% of their sustain on most abilities. This should give you a hint about how broken it truly was.

I'll repeat but healers have other responsibilities and more heal to do to protect the party as a whole.
WoW tanks can still keep themselves up, they only require healing when there's a spike of damage.

Here's a bonus to back it up, I know Supersnow will absolutely love it.
Guardian druid solo tanking endgame content with no healers at +11 difficulty, as far as I know it's just a challenge to go above +10.

[Terhix]

Yes, but is it the case here? I don't think so.
(...)

What's not the case here? The playerbase is so different that one nerf to WAR will cause more players quitting than nerfing all tanks did in WoW? Or is it the reason for tanks being nerfed in WoW different?

Well, let's see, here is Blizzard verbatim in their blue post during Dragonflight:

(...) We want healers to play a key role in keeping tanks alive, and tanks shouldn't be able to easily solo large portions of encounters after the rest of their group have died.

Emphasis mine.

I'd also like to remind people that even the staunchest defenders of Bloodwhetting, yourself included, admit it's overpowered. Now feel free to resume your mental gymnastics.

[CKNovel]

What's not the case here? The playerbase is so different that one nerf to WAR will cause more players quitting than nerfing all tanks did in WoW? Or is it the reason for tanks being nerfed in WoW different?
Well, let's see, here is Blizzard verbatim in their blue post during Dragonflight:

I'd also like to remind people that even the staunchest defenders of Bloodwhetting, yourself included, admit it's overpowered. Now feel free to resume your mental gymnastics.

If we had something similar to mythic dungeons and Warrior was able to solo sustain it, I'd agree for a nerf. But right now it's just to stroke a minority's ego.
I've already stated that something overpowered, especially in a very specific and casual scenario, isn't necesseraly bad.

I only shared the patch note that documented the heavy nerf to tank sustain with a video post nerf and that's gymnastic to you?
That's just presenting facts and putting things in its original context to show how out of control WoW's tank sustain was and clear the misinformation about WoW tanks """melting""" to boss attacks.
At this point, walking in the street is gymnastic.

You also mentionned the problems being similar but that isn't true, the type of content and difficulty is widely different. Now you're moving the goalpost.
Who's doing mental gymnastic here?

[Terhix]

If we had something similar to mythic dungeons and Warrior was able to solo sustain it, I'd agree for a nerf. But right now it's just to stroke a minority's ego.
I've already stated that something overpowered, especially in a very specific and casual scenario, isn't necesseraly bad.

I only shared the patch note that documented the heavy nerf to tank sustain with a video post nerf and that's gymnastic to you?
That's just presenting facts and putting things in its original context to show how out of control WoW's tank sustain was and clear the misinformation about WoW tanks """melting""" to boss attacks.
At this point, walking in the street is gymnastic.

Rationalizing why something that is overpowered shouldn't be nerfed, as you are doing here, is mental gymnastics.

You also mentionned the problems being similar but that isn't true, the type of content and difficulty is widely different. Now you're moving the goalpost.
Who's doing mental gymnastic here?

I'll rephrase my argument again so maybe it gets to you this time:

1. Anjou said: "Do you really want the game to lose 50% of it's monetization in a single day just because you think a job is too OP?"
2. I pointed out that blizzard thought tanks were OP (see similar problem here?) and nerfed them, twice.
3. Blizzard has not lost any monetization as a result, and if anything their bottom line went up.

For me to have moved the goalpost someone would have to point how any of these statements is faulty, and I'd have to change my argument as a result. But nobody did, and I have not changed my argument, my goal post is in exactly the same place it was 2 pages ago, and your tangents don't change that.

[CKNovel]

I'll rephrase my argument again so maybe it gets to you this time:

[Some beef with someone else unrelated to the point]

I'm thankfull for your effort but it doesn't change anything.
I've only put back in context how the tanks were broken and how the nerf was seen as necessary by everyone. And you seem to struggle with this idea.

I don't care about whatever you said with Anjou but that, you've been making false claims that the problem was similar, which isn't.
The necessity, impact and context of the nerfs are completely different, that's like if you were saying the World War II and the Vietnam war had similar results because they're both wars.
Remember we're comparing this to Bloodwhetting.

And again, you've been moving the goalpost to your discussion with Anjou, I don't care about it.
It's not that complex, is it?

[Supersnow845]

I'm thankfull for your effort but it doesn't change anything.
I've only put back in context how the tanks were broken and how the nerf was seen as necessary by everyone. And you seem to struggle with this idea.

I don't care about whatever you said with Anjou but that, you've been making false claims that the problem was similar, which isn't.
The necessity, impact and context of the nerfs are completely different, that's like if you were saying the World War II and the Vietnam war had similar results because they're both wars.
Remember we're comparing this to Bloodwhetting.

And again, you've been moving the goalpost to your discussion with Anjou, I don't care about it.
It's not that complex, is it?

I mean if 14 let you pull the entire dungeon then WAR could easily tank the entire dungeon because BW scales with enemies

That’s just an example of 14 artificially limiting pull size, not an example of WOW being worse on the tank sustain side

[Terhix]

The necessity, impact and context of the nerfs are completely different (...)

This is completely superfluous to the argument I'm making, but yes, given the fact that people didn't quit WoW en masse after nerfs to all tanks that affected them in all content it would then stand to reason people won't quit this game en masse either if you nerf one ability on one job in one very specific content only.

And again, you've been moving the goalpost to your discussion with Anjou, I don't care about it.

If you don't care about the arguments I'm making, then don't reply to me next time and then get upset because I don't let you derail the topic lol.

Edit: also you should really learn what "moving the goalposts" means, you still keep using it wrong.