Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[CKNovel]

There's a Samurai.

They took vuln stacks to pop Tengetsu when aoe raid wides weren't coming out because it gave them 10 Kenki.

While it's true, they only took the majority of vulnerability up in Tender valley. In Alexandria, 2/5, Straighbourg Deadwalk 1/5.
On other content they've cleared I've seen the mitigation being used, so I just assume they went in those dungeons with shit&giggles in mind.

In any cases, Samurai survives 5 vulnerability stacks with 3 from the last boss alone without the need for a Warrior, Paladin or any healer.

[Kabooa]

While it's true, they only took the majority of vulnerability up in Tender valley. In Alexandria, 2/5, Straighbourg Deadwalk 1/5.
On other content they've cleared I've seen the mitigation being used, so I just assume they went in those dungeons with shit&giggles in mind.

In any cases, Samurai survives 5 vulnerability stacks with 3 from the last boss alone without the need for a Warrior, Paladin or any healer.

Sure, take it away from DPS too.

Won't see me complain about it.

[Somnolence]

I wouldn't celebrate the tankbuster thing, tankbuster damage is a joke, if you want people to learn about tankbusters then tankbusters need to be a credible threat.

They are in ultimates and these reflects this Square Enix philosophy of scripted incoming damage best.

Consider that all ultimates have phases where you do trios (downtime mechanics) and targetable boss comes back between them only to do tankbusters and get spanked.

TOP phase 5 is good example of this since it is double tankbuster - trio - double tankbuster - trio - double tankbuster - trio with a bit of targetable boss - double tankbuster into enrage.

Each of these tankbusters do up to 300k damage while tank HP is ~110k, so as you can see each tank is forced to kitchen sink these + have party and healers to mitigate if they are swapping them to have ~65% mitigation, or invuln these.

They are spread apart enough for rampart, feints, healer cds to come back. So incoming damage comes in intervals matching defensive/healer cooldowns. Even the short CDs like bloodwheting have to be used on specific things here.

While the rest of the game is easier, fundamental scripted nature of damage still remains.

And the proposals of more threatening autos, encounters forcing spreading of cooldowns etc. do not match this at all.

Big issue is that the healing is secondary to mitigation and encounters forcing overlapping mitigations from entire party results in huge issues if somebody misses theirs.

Shield healer tends to suffer as a consequence, but even they do not have enough tools to deal with all of this by themselves, so no wonder they are rarest role in PF.

[Alice_Rivers]

I'm glad that they got tankbusters right somewhere, that doesn't really help the rest of us though, tankbusters in dungeons and such are still pointless. While I wouldn't advocate for having to kitchen sink them in normal content, they should still require spending cooldowns to survive at all and still make an appreciable hole in the tank's HP. Maybe have them apply a vuln/DoT/both if the devs are feeling particularly harsh so the healer actually has to deal with it.

On the subject of scripting, I've suggested elsewhere that at every 'mechanic point' there should be three to five mechanics to choose from at random so that while you might know when damage is coming you won't know what form it's going to take until the mechanic starts playing out. combine that with a reduction in generic 'dodge the aoe' mechanics, instead having forced damage of some kind would increase the value of healers a bit at least.

[Seku]

I agree with BW nerf to one instance healing per weapon skill. I don't think this would kill Warriors Identity because I don't think anyone is really thinking a jobs "identity" is linked to the fact that something procts multiple times. Paladin still has a on demand healing GCD if anything else and if we are talking identity I feel like they should really look at Dark Knight and bring it in line with it's class design in other mainline Final Fantasy games.

Tanks over healing isn't a boggyman and should be looked into before it gets too far out of hand, it won't though because as long as content is being cleared and the sub fee is still there SE has no reason to look into this. To give more context I find it funny that Xeno's suggestion for living dead got implemented before War got BW nerfed or that Drk got a real rework.

The instances of DPS healing and mitigating is funny when trying to put it up against Tanks as they (the dps) are limited by their CD's and the mages have to give up their DPS and or resources to heal. Tanks CD on their heals are next to non existent and often doesn't come at the expense of DPS, though I wouldn't be opposed to this. That is giving up on another part of the role in order to fill another.

[Carighan]

I still think retooling the underlying "specialization" of tanks would work better but yeah I agree, in the short term maybe focusing Bloodwhetting more on single-target would work better:

* Heal per-weaponskill-used, not per-target-hit.
* Increase healing to make the skill more potent against bosses etc. Or just increase the duration of the healing.

[shiftweave]

BW scales strongly with AoE. It's actually fairly weak in single-target situations because it provides less mitigation than the other tanks' kits. This makes a situation where Warrior is weak in, e.g., TOP P6 or DSR P6, but also it's soloing dungeons. Just don't make it scale in AoE.

[MikoRemi]

Not OP enough to be changed. Again~.
Happy 7.1 everyone!

[Rithy255]

BW scales strongly with AoE. It's actually fairly weak in single-target situations because it provides less mitigation than the other tanks' kits. This makes a situation where Warrior is weak in, e.g., TOP P6 or DSR P6, but also it's soloing dungeons. Just don't make it scale in AoE.

not really if you compare it to other tank cooldowns on single target it's still on par, 400 Potency shield might seem small but it scales with your mits which BW is already two mits stacked ontop of each other, I'm also pretty sure 400 healing Tank potency is around 10% of your HP. Ignoring all healing effects Wars is 10% + 10% and a 400 Potency shield while Plds/gnbs is 15% + 15% Which are all pretty close in power level, but if we include Healing effects then warrior has the best effect even in Single target.