Frontlines over coordination Issues

[Aravell]

Honestly, I do wonder, is it that some groups are overcoordinated or is it that the average FL player has no coordination (and most don't even have their map open)?

From what I've observed, most teams require at least someone to take charge and coordinate for them to win. It's very rare that you get teams that are completely silent but also efficient.

[Mawlzy]

Honestly, I do wonder, is it that some groups are overcoordinated or is it that the average FL player has no coordination (and most don't even have their map open)?

From what I've observed, most teams require at least someone to take charge and coordinate for them to win. It's very rare that you get teams that are completely silent but also efficient.

Do we have any evidence this is the case? Why would people not have their map open? It's an oft-stated claim, and I can't rule it out, but it's never struck me as probable for a significant number of players.

And what is the "average" FL player? I've noted before the distribution is probably trimodal. People who really shouldn't be there because of their lack of contribution. A fat middle of players who are trying, but are not superstars. And sometimes a small top end, often in a premade.

Isn't it the fact that these three disparate groups all get dumped in the same match that is causing the current friction? I'd personally prefer it if the lethargic rump got their XP somewhere else. Lethargic play shouldn't be tolerated in any group content.

[Aravell]

Do we have any evidence this is the case? Why would people not have their map open? It's an oft-stated claim, and I can't rule it out, but it's never struck me as probable for a significant number of players.

It's very probable to be the case if you look at how common it is in Onsal Hakair/Seal Rock for people to be fighting out in the middle of nowhere long after new nodes spawn, that indicates that those people very likely don't have their map open.

Also, small addition here, people need to stop putting map links into chat, it's not helpful because barely anyone will be clicking map links in PvP. Calling a direction to move in when the team stalls is more helpful.

And what is the "average" FL player? I've noted before the distribution is probably trimodal. People who really shouldn't be there because of their lack of contribution. A fat middle of players who are trying, but are not superstars. And sometimes a small top end, often in a premade.

By 'average FL player', I'm talking about the most common type of player you'll meet, not a statistical average of the skill level.

The most common type of player you'll meet in FL are the ones who run around cluelessly and attacks anything that moves. They usually require a little push for them to attack the correct thing at the correct place. That's why I said that some coordination is required for the average player.

[Mawlzy]

It's very probable to be the case if you look at how common it is in Onsal Hakair/Seal Rock for people to be fighting out in the middle of nowhere long after new nodes spawn, that indicates that those people very likely don't have their map open.

Also, small addition here, people need to stop putting map links into chat, it's not helpful because barely anyone will be clicking map links in PvP. Calling a direction to move in when the team stalls is more helpful.



By 'average FL player', I'm talking about the most common type of player you'll meet, not a statistical average of the skill level.

The most common type of player you'll meet in FL are the ones who run around cluelessly and attacks anything that moves. They usually require a little push for them to attack the correct thing at the correct place. That's why I said that some coordination is required for the average player.

100% agree that map links posted in chat do absolutely nothing to help the coordination. On Aether this has been becoming more common rather than less, which is disappointing.

I disagree that the modal player "run(s) around cluelessly and attacks anything that moves." Again, on Aether there are certainly some players who do that, but in most matches the bulk of the players are making somewhat coherent decisions, even if they can be slow to react or have imperfect strategic awareness.
Hence I have always suspected this idea they don't have their maps open is more likely a case of them not being very good at FL.

But I completely agree some input on which team to attack or objective to grab improves the matches. I suspect that when shotcalls/SFX are flooding chat, however, there is a subset of players who willfully start ignoring them. You can argue such players are naughty for doing so, but if it's the reality then it falls on the commanders to find a commanding style their troops will actually follow.

It's simply counterproductive to regard the "average players" as a hindrance to your beautifully-oiled strategic machine if you rely on those players to help win matches. Whether they are actually needed when an effective premade is leading the action is less clear IMO.

It's been pointed out here that FL is a war game and that "real" battles involve a single commander ordering around obedient soldiers. This tends to overlook the "game" element and how players interact with the mode in practice. In NA in particular, that is simply going to rub many players the wrong way. Coordination is necessary. How it is achieved is more subtle than a commander smashing down an iron fist.