Frontlines over coordination Issues

[Sinstrel]

What is it about the organization of a pre-made that can't be organized by a commander? Genuine question here. I suppose one could argue voice chat but, having 4-8 people in a discord call becomes more chaotic than organized in my experience.

If it's just one person calling the shots in a voice call... isn't that just the same as using markers and sound effects in-game?

[LibitIncarne]

What is it about the organization of a pre-made that can't be organized by a commander? Genuine question here. I suppose one could argue voice chat but, having 4-8 people in a discord call becomes more chaotic than organized in my experience.

All 4 people have functional braincells and are here to win the game rather than wait for the other 23 people to go do it for them.

[Mawlzy]

What is it about the organization of a pre-made that can't be organized by a commander? Genuine question here. I suppose one could argue voice chat but, having 4-8 people in a discord call becomes more chaotic than organized in my experience.

If it's just one person calling the shots in a voice call... isn't that just the same as using markers and sound effects in-game?

I'd suggest part of it is simply practice. Some of these premades are effectively statics. They play together a lot, develop a common cadence, understand the strategy they will employ, and stack in a specific way. I guess it's possible you occasionally queue in and find 3 players you know well on your team, and you switch jobs to create a pseudo-premade, but if that happens more than 1 match in a 100 I'd be surprised.

As to voice, again it's familiarity with using it in a static. And anything that frees up your fingers is powerful IMO. Moreover, on Aether we're now seeing "silent premades" who coordinate burst via voice and don't even bother to involve their "team-mates" at all. No shotcalls, just the four of them moving in harmony.

The efficacy is also revealed by commanders following the Olivia model who play as DRK shotcaller in a premade. If commanding solo was as effective, I'd imagine more of these commanders would do it. Instead they tell us they are the only competent players on the field. Thus they have to play as a premade because they can't trust the "idiots."

The response immediately before this one is a classic illustration of that precise point. Really nice "community," huh?

[LibitIncarne]

The response immediately before this one is a classic illustration of that precise point. Really nice "community," huh?

What I said was an exaggeration, but it's exactly what they believe.
Given the number of players who have 0 damage at the end of a match, you can't exactly blame them, especially when no-one calls them out in the middle of a match.

This wasn't an issue in 8v8v8 where you could easily see where all of your other party members were, and everyone had more individual power so if one person was sitting around doing nothing People would notice.

[gidsonBrand]

It is just a lot more fun to be in VC with 2-3 groups of people doing Frontline. And I think having even 6 people on the same team, just moving in the same direction can help herd people into where they need to go.

Kinda like starting a conga line (of death). Sure you can do it with random folks, but if your friends start one the rest of the club will join in too.

[IDontPetLalas]

I'd suggest part of it is simply practice. Some of these premades are effectively statics. They play together a lot, develop a common cadence, understand the strategy they will employ, and stack in a specific way. I guess it's possible you occasionally queue in and find 3 players you know well on your team, and you switch jobs to create a pseudo-premade, but if that happens more than 1 match in a 100 I'd be surprised.

As to voice, again it's familiarity with using it in a static. And anything that frees up your fingers is powerful IMO. Moreover, on Aether we're now seeing "silent premades" who coordinate burst via voice and don't even bother to involve their "team-mates" at all. No shotcalls, just the four of them moving in harmony.

The efficacy is also revealed by commanders following the Olivia model who play as DRK shotcaller in a premade. If commanding solo was as effective, I'd imagine more of these commanders would do it. Instead they tell us they are the only competent players on the field. Thus they have to play as a premade because they can't trust the "idiots."

The response immediately before this one is a classic illustration of that precise point. Really nice "community," huh?

Interesting enough I was in a match recently where the "idiots" self- organized and managed to win the match. Our team didn't have a single tank, and was mostly ranged. If I remember correctly, the whole alliance had one tank - a WAR, whereas at least one of the other alliances had a few DRKs , ASTs, and a couple of DRGs. In our alliance, one person self-designated as the commander and called out a few key commands. Was a a very enjoyable win. Would we have won against a very strong pre-made? Most likely not, however while I agree that there are some people who are lost in FL, categorizing everyone as "idiots" aside from a few known friends is contemptible.

[Aravell]

Honestly, I do wonder, is it that some groups are overcoordinated or is it that the average FL player has no coordination (and most don't even have their map open)?

From what I've observed, most teams require at least someone to take charge and coordinate for them to win. It's very rare that you get teams that are completely silent but also efficient.

[Mawlzy]

What I said was an exaggeration, but it's exactly what they believe.
Given the number of players who have 0 damage at the end of a match, you can't exactly blame them, especially when no-one calls them out in the middle of a match.

This wasn't an issue in 8v8v8 where you could easily see where all of your other party members were, and everyone had more individual power so if one person was sitting around doing nothing People would notice.

The number of players doing 0 damage on Aether is invariably 0. One at most, which I'd like to think is a DC. I agree some players are doing very little to help, but again on Aether they are IMO a minority. I also agree 8v8v8 would be a significant improvement.

[Mawlzy]

Honestly, I do wonder, is it that some groups are overcoordinated or is it that the average FL player has no coordination (and most don't even have their map open)?

From what I've observed, most teams require at least someone to take charge and coordinate for them to win. It's very rare that you get teams that are completely silent but also efficient.

Do we have any evidence this is the case? Why would people not have their map open? It's an oft-stated claim, and I can't rule it out, but it's never struck me as probable for a significant number of players.

And what is the "average" FL player? I've noted before the distribution is probably trimodal. People who really shouldn't be there because of their lack of contribution. A fat middle of players who are trying, but are not superstars. And sometimes a small top end, often in a premade.

Isn't it the fact that these three disparate groups all get dumped in the same match that is causing the current friction? I'd personally prefer it if the lethargic rump got their XP somewhere else. Lethargic play shouldn't be tolerated in any group content.

[Mawlzy]

Interesting enough I was in a match recently where the "idiots" self- organized and managed to win the match. Our team didn't have a single tank, and was mostly ranged. If I remember correctly, the whole alliance had one tank - a WAR, whereas at least one of the other alliances had a few DRKs , ASTs, and a couple of DRGs. In our alliance, one person self-designated as the commander and called out a few key commands. Was a a very enjoyable win. Would we have won against a very strong pre-made? Most likely not, however while I agree that there are some people who are lost in FL, categorizing everyone as "idiots" aside from a few known friends is contemptible.

It is indeed, and it's also extremely off-putting to anyone trying to get better who joins a PvP Discord server and discovers how they are perceived by that community.