So... This is the "improved encounter design"?

[TheRealQuah]

Edit: Just a disclaimer since this is not in the thread title, but this is about Savage fights in case it's not clear

I'm a Party Finder raider (for logistic reasons), and as I'm slowly going through the new Arcadion fights, almost done with M2S clear, I can't help but feel a bit... disappointed?

Not to the fights themselves! They are well made, I don't take that away, but they are literally more of their 'safe formula' of symmetrical cleaves, mirrored, clockspot based mechanics, or events that are either X > Y or Y > X. Many elements are just things we already know but slightly dressed up. We still need 4 melees and 4 ranged units to resolve mechanics perfectly.

I did take a peek on M3S and M4S guides and it didn't really change what I think either. As I cleared this week's worth of M1S I kept thinking to myself how interesting would be if the Black Cat's clones were actual priority adds to micromanage instead of just animations?

The reason why I feel disappointed is because, based on the key notes, I thought we'd see an actual shake up on that formula, maybe taking more risks more out-of-the-box elements, or even paving the way for new types of job utilities to debut in the future.

I wonder if I got that feel totally wrong or delusional from the Fanfest? But if not, based on the extent of what we got, I kinda fear for the "job identity focus" in 8.0.

M2S is the least FF14 feeling fight we've had even. In fact it feels like it's straight out of WoW. What game are you playing?

[Raikai]

M2S is the least FF14 feeling fight we've had even. In fact it feels like it's straight out of WoW. What game are you playing?

Idk... The mechanics that are actually really interesting and refreshing to me is Alarm Pheromones 1 and the Beat 1's random heart evasion (which also feels like stuff we had in Barbariccia). The rest of the mechanics are all stuff we know. Circle or Line aoE, then repeat the opposite one, 2 patterns of honey blobs aoes, stack with partner or spread, group movement mechanic around boss to lay down puddles, a tether bait similar to the last mech on Rubicante, etc...

I think it's a very well made fight and I do enjoy... But not the expectation of something very unique that I had based on the Keynotes.

[angienessyo]

Idk... The mechanics that are actually really interesting and refreshing to me is Alarm Pheromones 1 and the Beat 1's random heart evasion (which also feels like stuff we had in Barbariccia). The rest of the mechanics are all stuff we know. Circle or Line aoE, then repeat the opposite one, 2 patterns of honey blobs aoes, stack with partner or spread, group movement mechanic around boss to lay down puddles, a tether bait similar to the last mech on Rubicante, etc...

I think it's a very well made fight and I do enjoy... But not the expectation of something very unique that I had based on the Keynotes.

Funnily enough, Alarm Pheromones is the one mechanic I keep seeing tons of complaints about specifically because it's so different/more reactive. I love that mechanic as well.

[CaedemSanguis]

Funnily enough, Alarm Pheromones is the one mechanic I keep seeing tons of complaints about specifically because it's so different/more reactive. I love that mechanic as well.

those kind of mechanics are "wow style" mechanics (look out and adjust)

[Raikai]

those kind of mechanics are "wow style" mechanics (look out and adjust)

Not saying the grass is greener there because I quit around BfA, so Idk how WoW is nowadays, but I personally think that those mechanics are more interesting because they encourage thinking on the go and reward good improvisation skills, as opposed to the very cemented way that the usual mechanics are solved.

Puzzle like mechanics also have such a short shelf life, because once solved all that matters is remembering what goes where, and then after a few rounds, it becomes autopilot because there's usually just a few set patterns that stuff can go (many times just 2 patterns tbh)... ln a reclear scope, it gets either stale or annoying (in a PF setting) when somebody else fails repeatedly on stuff they shouldn't.

[AmiableApkallu]

Puzzle like mechanics also have such a short shelf life, because once solved all that matters is remembering what goes where, and then after a few rounds, it becomes autopilot because there's usually just a few set patterns that stuff can go (many times just 2 patterns tbh)... ln a reclear scope, it gets either stale or annoying (in a PF setting) when somebody else fails repeatedly on stuff they shouldn't.

And that is what I find least satisfying about FFXIV encounters.

[Valence]

Not saying the grass is greener there because I quit around BfA, so Idk how WoW is nowadays, but I personally think that those mechanics are more interesting because they encourage thinking on the go and reward good improvisation skills, as opposed to the very cemented way that the usual mechanics are solved.

Puzzle like mechanics also have such a short shelf life, because once solved all that matters is remembering what goes where, and then after a few rounds, it becomes autopilot because there's usually just a few set patterns that stuff can go (many times just 2 patterns tbh)... ln a reclear scope, it gets either stale or annoying (in a PF setting) when somebody else fails repeatedly on stuff they shouldn't.

I don't like FF Encounters for this reason as well because it feels more like rehearsing for a dance or playing DDR than actually using my brain and think what tool to use for it on the fly. But I guess that M2S first Beats shows that perhaps there is room for an in between, with some amount of chaos, within the current system.

But that would be asking them to make the game into a whole different game and seriously review how difficulty is weighted on every facet of the game and how every mechanic is actually designed, because solving current mechanics without any kind of "trick" to do them within 5s of reaction would just not work at all.

[Raikai]

I don't like FF Encounters for this reason as well because it feels more like rehearsing for a dance or playing DDR than actually using my brain and think what tool to use for it on the fly. But I guess that M2S first Beats shows that perhaps there is room for an in between, with some amount of chaos, within the current system.

Honestly, hitting a balance like you suggests is like a very good goal if you'd ask me. M2S, imagine if the beats were all like that, but the "not beats" phases were more formulaic, you'd get a good balance between the two of them. I wouldn't even mind if some particular fights would lean more into one aspect than the other, as long as the big picture is balanced.

I don't necessarily think it's making a whole different game, is just taking what they already have and reaching a better harmony between aspects "It's a test of your muscle memory" versus "a test of your wits".