So... This is the "improved encounter design"?

[Morphiana]

Yoshi says before DT launch they'll start changing encounter designs yet people expected they'd change those designs starting in 7.0 despite the fact that those were likely in the testing stage at the time he made the announcement. They weren't going to re-work everything 7.0 had coming when he announced they'd make those changes based on feedback after resisting said feedback for so long in Endwalker.

The reason we're likely to see the majority of those changes in 7.2 is because that gives the devs time to build the encounters from the ground up with the new designs in mind and not just tack on a few things here or there. That's why 7.2 will be the true test, because they'll have had the time and feedback from 7.0 to design fights with the updated methods.

If they mess up 7.2, well they said they'd try new things, make mistakes, and make corrections in future fight designs based on feedback (and I'm sure based on retention rates too). If 7.2 is messed up then 7.4 would be strike two or three depending on how people look at it, both of which are real bad which SE knows.

There's a lot riding on this for them. WoW has mostly got their content back up to snuff to be a competitor again. 7.2 will be the first major raid patch after the new WoW xpac. They can't afford to lose all those subs back to WoW by messing up right after a very divided DT launch has already depressed the user base.

[Raikai]

we're talking about difficulty because it's a risk to implement new mechanics they're not used to, it can either result as being too hard or too easy

and my guess is they didn't want the first tier to be harder or easier, so they didn't implement those new kind of mech

But why it's a risk now, but not a risk in 7.2, since this is targeted just to a certain demographic of High End duty players? Especially when the 3 raid tiers in practice work as standalone entities, because you don't need to experience the first to get to the second or the third... I remember I started tackling Savage Fights more seriously in the second tier of Endwalker. I just feel that the best time to introduce change is always in the beginning of something.

[Raikai]

Yoshi says before DT launch they'll start changing encounter designs yet people expected they'd change those designs starting in 7.0 despite the fact that those were likely in the testing stage at the time he made the announcement. They weren't going to re-work everything 7.0 had coming when he announced they'd make those changes based on feedback after resisting said feedback for so long in Endwalker.

The reason we're likely to see the majority of those changes in 7.2 is because that gives the devs time to build the encounters from the ground up with the new designs in mind and not just tack on a few things here or there.

See, that's what I completely overlooked from his discourse. It makes me feel as they're treating 7.0 and 7.x as two different products... But well, if that's the case, then I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in 7.2, it just it wasn't clear for me.

[Andevom]

You really need to take these statements with a grain of salt.

Of course they're going to bill it as "exciting new elements in encounters" - they're enthusiastic about their game even over the smallest changes, and they've overhyped things like this since the beginning.

Here is, seriously, what could qualify as "new encounter design" in their eyes:

"The fights now have an announcer who reacts to what's happening during the battle!"

"There's heart meters above each player to let you know how many stacks you have!"

"The bombs have long and short fuses to indicate when they'll blow up!"

Don't expect this to become wildly different encounter design. There will be some nice new wallpaper, but it's still the same house.

[CaedemSanguis]

But why it's a risk now, but not a risk in 7.2, since this is targeted just to a certain demographic of High End duty players? Especially when the 3 raid tiers in practice work as standalone entities, because you don't need to experience the first to get to the second or the third... I remember I started tackling Savage Fights more seriously in the second tier of Endwalker. I just feel that the best time to introduce change is always in the beginning of something.

2nd-3rd tier/criterion savages/ultimates being too hard is more acceptable than a 1st tier being too hard

[Jeeqbit]

People asked for encounters to get less homogenized, like jobs, and the devs have promised that they were working this expansion on making the encounters more creative. So far, they're not a lot, that's what the OP has been saying. Nobody talked about difficulty. Nobody is contesting that the first tier is always easier. We weren't promised more difficult fights, we were promised more creative and unique fights.

I'm aware they were talking about making the fights more creative and exciting. What I was saying is that this did start with 7.0, because Yoshi-P said so and mentioned the expert dungeons and the raids as examples.

Whether people actually agree they are different or more exciting is up to them, but the expert dungeons do feel different than what they would have done in Endwalker with that ghost fight, the enemies that run at you constantly, the maze mechanic and there being an actual prospect of failure if you get sleepy against mechanics and don't constantly observe your surroundings.

I won't speak for savage but the normal modes seem different from what they've done for a while as well due to the smaller hitboxes and once again making it faster-paced. Could you imagine P11 or E11 having M2's heart mechanic and having to dodge all that stuff?

But for as exciting as all these are, perhaps they too become something you yawn at once you get used to them and they start to feel "easier". So I made the point for consideration that the first tier is easier in general and that they may step it up more when more "difficulty" is allowed later in the expansion.

[AnnRam]

I'm pretty sure Yoshida made a correction that the improved encounters are coming in 7.2, not in 7.0.

We'll probably see by the 2nd tier.

Now you won't be fighting on big Square Arenas but in Circular ones.

[Rekh]

I'm aware they were talking about making the fights more creative and exciting. What I was saying is that this did start with 7.0, because Yoshi-P said so and mentioned the expert dungeons and the raids as examples.

Whether people actually agree they are different or more exciting is up to them, but the expert dungeons do feel different than what they would have done in Endwalker with that ghost fight, the enemies that run at you constantly, the maze mechanic and there being an actual prospect of failure if you get sleepy against mechanics and don't constantly observe your surroundings.

I won't speak for savage but the normal modes seem different from what they've done for a while as well due to the smaller hitboxes and once again making it faster-paced. Could you imagine P11 or E11 having M2's heart mechanic and having to dodge all that stuff?

But for as exciting as all these are, perhaps they too become something you yawn at once you get used to them and they start to feel "easier". So I made the point for consideration that the first tier is easier in general and that they may step it up more when more "difficulty" is allowed later in the expansion.

I doubt it. This level of difficulty matches heavensward and stormblood. FFXIV's long term issue's the lack of punishment and stack of debuffs not beign steep enough. Combine that with no rng and the fights could be done just based on sound while watching youtube. Fortunately I'm seeing actual rng now with Dawntrail content. It's been a huge improvement.

[Xelanar]

I find the encounters to be very much improved.
I have yet to do M4S but the other three are awesome.
Easy to understand, some of the mechanics require to actually pay attention, and an amount of downtime I can live with.

I was growing tired of mechanics that superficially look complex because of 4834854 debuffs being slapped on everyone, but once you get used to them it's only 2-3 easily recognizable patterns.
Honey B. is my favorite encounter design-wise. And I'm not only saying that because she forces me to.

[CaedemSanguis]

I doubt it. This level of difficulty matches heavensward and stormblood.

?

Gordias and Midas were waaaaay harder than you're usual 2nd/3rd tier since 4.0


Im pretty confident that m5s-m8s and m9s-m12s will have a lot more "wow style" mechanics where you have to react/watch out (m2s alarm pheromones for instance)