Dark Knight rework ideas (yet another)

[Rithy255]

TLR
This isn't 2016. Heavensward dark knight is never coming back. Homogenization is the name of the game. If you aren't used to it by now, you are probably playing the wrong game. Oblation needs a regen. The Blackest Night needs to be overhauled.

This argument assumes that we want Heavensward dark knight, I do not want heavensward job designs but I also want more "complexity" in the game, telling people they are playing the wrong game because they are giving back feedback about how to improve or make a job more fun isn't a healthy mindset to have, as these sorts of arguments of "don't like it don't play it!" misses the point that if someone is leaving back feedback about a job they likely are very passionate about the game already.

I'm personally not fully against making TBN more Standard (I also think Oblation should grant the target a small life steal effect, just per hit like HS instead of per enemy like BW because that makes dungeons boring for me), but if your going to remove TBN's interaction dark knight needs something to stand out from other tanks, its rotation is already warrior without a combo path it doesn't need to have more took away without anything of substance being added into the job.

Making everything bare bones and simple for the sake of it with nothing of substance to actually make the Job feel better is why Jobs are feeling so empty in the first place, skills like old goring blade on PLD didn't work with current design but that's no reason to take away PLD's combo path and make it a 60s burst button for example. If we're going to ask for changes to jobs which makes them more forgiving at least give them more to do in return.

You might accept Homogenization as it is, but theirs a reason why people are vocal and starting to get annoyed, because frankly it's gone too far and the gameplay hasn't evolved since Shadowbringers I do not want to go back to Heavensward but that isn't a reason why job design should stagnate at Shadowbringers.

[BabyYoda]

There is too little point of falure in this game,

To many restrictions will cause a homonization

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

This argument assumes that we want Heavensward dark knight, I do not want heavensward job designs but I also want more "complexity" in the game, telling people they are playing the wrong game because they are giving back feedback about how to improve or make a job more fun isn't a healthy mindset to have, as these sorts of arguments of "don't like it don't play it!" misses the point that if someone is leaving back feedback about a job they likely are very passionate about the game already.

I'm personally not fully against making TBN more Standard (I also think Oblation should grant the target a small life steal effect, just per hit like HS instead of per enemy like BW because that makes dungeons boring for me), but if your going to remove TBN's interaction dark knight needs something to stand out from other tanks, its rotation is already warrior without a combo path it doesn't need to have more took away without anything of substance being added into the job.

Making everything bare bones and simple for the sake of it with nothing of substance to actually make the Job feel better is why Jobs are feeling so empty in the first place, skills like old goring blade on PLD didn't work with current design but that's no reason to take away PLD's combo path and make it a 60s burst button for example. If we're going to ask for changes to jobs which makes them more forgiving at least give them more to do in return.

You might accept Homogenization as it is, but theirs a reason why people are vocal and starting to get annoyed, because frankly it's gone too far and the gameplay hasn't evolved since Shadowbringers I do not want to go back to Heavensward but that isn't a reason why job design should stagnate at Shadowbringers.

Stormblood DRK were the days - less complex and convoluted than Heavensward, kept the nice parts like Haste and action buffing around with good uptime on both. It honestly could have just been tuned a bit to make MP cost on Dark Arts higher (along with potency, so it is less spammy) and we would've had a decent DRK design. The removal of making MP spenders + Blood spenders interact with each other is also absolutely criminal.

Alas, we got WAR for dummies casting magical Hissatsu: Shinten in between with none of the decisionmaking except for "don't spend all your MP if you need a TBN shield in the next 15s in a frame that breaks it in 7s".

I just want "something" man.

[Carighan]

As always I feel the first thing that needs to be nailed down is the desired job identity. And I don't mean the visual identity, "Broody with a giant sword and goopey particle effects", but the overall class fantasy that it is supposed to evoke from a mechanical perspective.

For example, we all know Warriors are the tanks that heal themselves and others. What are Dark Knights? Or rather, what should dark knights be?

Like I said before, I'd retool things as I don't like the current fantasy of Warriors, but if I had my way it'd be:

* Paladins: Support Tank
* Warrior: Absorb/Ignore Tank
* Gunbreaker: Ranged Tank
* Dark Knight: DoT/Drain Tank

So I'd give the constant (it's not bursty like it is for Warriors right now) self-healing to Dark Knights if I had to retool the fantasies behind the job, a result of moving the job to be strongly about DoTs and draining aether from their targets. But that's just my personal take, and it's also so wildly different from what they are right now that it's entirely unrealistic, Warriors would be the drain tank if anything, since they already mostly fit that.

Anyhow, I feel that without SQEX first formalizing what each tank is supposed to be, discussing what they are to do (as in, their abilities and gameplay) is a bit pointless.

[DRKoftheAzure]

While adding 2 new GCDs does help with the lackluster and boring GCD rotation, I don't think it will be enough...

Bringing back Dark Passenger as GCD combo starter that is followed up by Flood of Shadow which would then be followed up by Shadowbringer with step being Disesteem, with each step costing 1000-2000 MP and each step also heals you for 400 cure potency. We can also make Paladin's MP spending actions heal the whole party so that way they get something in terms of utility.

Moving Scarlet Delirium combo to level 62 and having Bloodspiller grant a buff that makes it so you can use Scarlet Delirium combo on execution will help Dark Knight leveling a LOT. Same with moving Impalement to level 64 and have Quietus grant a buff that lets you use Impalement. Because it takes FOREVER to get a new GCD AFTER getting Quietus.

[The_User]

While adding 2 new GCDs does help with the lackluster and boring GCD rotation, I don't think it will be enough...

Bringing back Dark Passenger as GCD combo starter that is followed up by Flood of Shadow which would then be followed up by Shadowbringer with step being Disesteem, with each step costing 1000-2000 MP and each step also heals you for 400 cure potency. We can also make Paladin's MP spending actions heal the whole party so that way they get something in terms of utility.

Moving Scarlet Delirium combo to level 62 and having Bloodspiller grant a buff that makes it so you can use Scarlet Delirium combo on execution will help Dark Knight leveling a LOT. Same with moving Impalement to level 64 and have Quietus grant a buff that lets you use Impalement. Because it takes FOREVER to get a new GCD AFTER getting Quietus.

At which level do you want Dark Passenger to be introduced?

[DRKoftheAzure]

At which level do you want Dark Passenger to be introduced?

Same level that Flood of Darkness currently sits at, and I am also okay with having a button that lets me maintain Darkside during downtime and outside of combat as QoL change, and same with having Dark Arts a button to generate Dark Arts stacks, during downtime and outside of combat at level 30, while keeping the core idea of Dark Arts being used to bypass MP cost.

As for Edge of Darkness/Shadow since it currently does the same thing as Flood of Darkness/Shadow but for single target, I would rework it to a single target MP spender burst combo, similar to my Dark Passenger idea, but have it combo into Bloodspiller(since my current suggestion for Bloodspiller is a temporary change for GCD rotation), then have Carve and Spit be the combo finisher. Same 1000-2000 MP cost, no shared recast timers, MAYBE have Dark Passenger combo and Edge of Shadow combos have 15-30 second recast timers, and have these combos generate Blood Gauge.

I would also have Scarlet Delirium combo cost a minimum of 25(50 max if my proposed idea doesn't work out) Blood Gauge at level 62, and since Quietus would combo into Impalment at level 62, it would also cost the same as Scarlet Delirium combo, with the same proposed cost that also have 15-30 second recast timer that ISN'T shared, and have these combos restore HP and MP(same HP cure potency as the MP spenders).

Abyssal Drain would go back onto the GCD and grants Plunge Ready, and make Plunge a target AoE GCD, no cost, just basic GCD timers...

My goal is try and give Dark Knight SOME skill expression with resource management of some kind.