Sena Bryer is right: the hatred that Smile gets is highly problematic

[ZXN]

The official communications channel of FF14 should not be host to transphobia and bigotry.

You're right, it shouldn't be a place for people to be transphobic and bigoted simply because they dislike something. However, this thread is ultimately to talk about the song Smile and the hatred it gets.

You quoted me earlier with this response-

Does it not fit because you have preconceived notions of what "correct" music should sound like? I think shedding those preconceived notions would help you appreciate Smile.

Everyone's definition of "correct" music is going to be different. Music IS subjective, and to me personally, Smile just simply doesn't fit in the times it is used.

1st Use: After Wuk's speech about wanting peace and happiness, after spending a dozen hours watching Wuk use peace and happiness to smash her way through any and every problem. Came off to me as cringe and funny, now having the game scream at me once again "ISN'T PEACE GREAT???"

2nd Use: BUILDING A GIANT TRAIN BOMB. Use was hilarious if mainly because it was a baffling decision.

3rd Use: The credits, which genuinely should've been the only time this song was used. To me though, after it played twice already at odd points in the MSQ and how it's suppose to be super uplifting and happy for peace and the future, hearing it again after essentially genociding an entire dimension of reconstructed memories felt...odd. Given this was also the full version of the song, it sounded like Akino's voice clashed somewhat with the choirs, while also clashing with Erenville's dialogue at the end, leading to a cacophony of voices with some both fast and odd tempos, making some of the lyrics hard to make out. I will not blame Akino or the choir though for the song being "bad", they simply sang at the tempo that was expected. Although Akino did sound like she struggled a bit to force the falsetto required for some parts. Might just be a case of her vocal range not being suited for the song.

The Tale Of The Star, Tomorrow and Tomorrow, Dragonsong, and even Revolutions all fit the tones of the expansion we played through when they played during the end of MSQ. Smile though, while it may have fit the overall "Tone" of Dawntrail, didn't feel like the other impactful end of MSQ songs to me: it felt like something that would be spontaneously sung by the entire cast at the end of a theater play.

I will say it again: I hated Smile. But not once have I said that it is a bad song. By itself, it is a fine enough song. But with how it was utilized in-game it just really doesn't seem to fit at all and makes it seem out of place and forced in.

[Lak14]

You didn't ask for Sena's consent for linking the twitter post. Please respect Sena and don't link anything that might lead to her personal profile. She's a victim of death threats and you're risking her safety. Such bigotry, hateful and tranphobic behavior is not to be tolerated.

[flipwizardmagoo]

Has OP responded to any of the actual feedback/critique (95% of this thread), or are they instead just cherry picking the couple of people using “wrong” pronouns?

[Bitmoar]

If anything it's subtlety racist to label this song as "Black Gospel" music. She obviously has no idea what she's talking about.

[Papayatar]

Not really
The raktika great wood song is gospel music too but people loved that

I never got gospel from that at all, the La Hee one right?

That more sounds like “generic tribal” music or for me my first thought was straight from this Pure Moods commercial I remember playing late at night in the 90s https://youtu.be/AZJSjrox_2s

[Allegor]

I'll play devil's advocate. She did say "certain sections" of gamers, so it's not like she outight said "if you don't like this song, you're racist" as much as "racists never shut up."

That said, I fail to see how race is involved in this in the first place, she really did have no business stirring drama when there was none.

[Midare]

Has OP responded to any of the actual feedback/critique (95% of this thread), or are they instead just cherry picking the couple of people using “wrong” pronouns?

Considering that the thread is bait, of course not.

And even assuming the OP is being genuine... anyone who backs up that level of Kafka trapping wouldn't know how to back up their claim well enough to respond to something aside from cherry picking.

[lolnotacat]

I'll play devil's advocate. She did say "certain sections" of gamers, so it's not like she outight said "if you don't like this song, you're racist" as much as "racists never shut up."

That said, I fail to see how race is involved in this in the first place, she really did have no business stirring drama when there was none.

That's a qualifier for some sort of deniability. It was pretty much inferred in the followup tweet of "Oh lots of defensive people." or some BS like that. Cowards like Sena are afraid to call out people directly so they use soft language which gives them wiggle room. This way (((she))) has the ability to backtrack if someone (((she's))) friends with or has the right combination of flags/pronouns in their bio dislikes Smile. "Oh well I said 'certain gamers' I clearly didn't mean you!"

[Lorika]

That's a qualifier for some sort of deniability. It was pretty much inferred in the followup tweet of "Oh lots of defensive people." or some BS like that. Cowards like Sena are afraid to call out people directly so they use soft language which gives them wiggle room. This way (((she))) has the ability to backtrack if someone (((she's))) friends with or has the right combination of flags/pronouns in their bio dislikes Smile. "Oh well I said 'certain gamers' I clearly didn't mean you!"

But in this case you only need one person.
The one who say : "Then who? Precise your thought please."

[Papayatar]

1st Use: After Wuk's speech about wanting peace and happiness, after spending a dozen hours watching Wuk use peace and happiness to smash her way through any and every problem. Came off to me as cringe and funny, now having the game scream at me once again "ISN'T PEACE GREAT???"

2nd Use: BUILDING A GIANT TRAIN BOMB. Use was hilarious if mainly because it was a baffling decision.

3rd Use: The credits, which genuinely should've been the only time this song was used. To me though, after it played twice already at odd points in the MSQ and how it's suppose to be super uplifting and happy for peace and the future, hearing it again after essentially genociding an entire dimension of reconstructed memories felt...odd. Given this was also the full version of the song, it sounded like Akino's voice clashed somewhat with the choirs, while also clashing with Erenville's dialogue at the end, leading to a cacophony of voices with some both fast and odd tempos, making some of the lyrics hard to make out. I will not blame Akino or the choir though for the song being "bad", they simply sang at the tempo that was expected. Although Akino did sound like she struggled a bit to force the falsetto required for some parts. Might just be a case of her vocal range not being suited for the song.

Totally agree! I think the song being used in 2nd and 3rd places, and the different ways it clashed for each respective part of the MSQ, is what for me made an initially so-so cheesy song seem bad.

Not cuz it’s a bad song, it’s just ok, but poor placement just highlights it in a bad way. If anything any similarly upbeat “let’s be inspired” type some in any other genre was placed in the same spots it’d still be out of place. Even if we got a non-cheesy song.

Also I feel like they wanted to have a, everyone working together montage, with the song and the only place they could find was the “building a train bomb” section unfortunately. Honestly a better use would have been after the attack on Tulliyolal, show a montage of everyone working together to clean up some of the damage. I can’t remember but didn’t cleaning the city up p.much happen off screen and we just return at some point and it’s back normal other than some minor NPC dialogue changes?