Will DRG and PLD still be next to useless in 2.0?

[TimonLoon]

Have you played PLD recently Timon? They drastically changed block mechanics in one of the lettered 1.22 patches I think and it's actually good now. It works on everything Parry does and now Divine veil forces (normal) blocks, you can see a huge difference in damage taken w/ a PLD tank now.

Yes I have. And I'm saying it didn't go far enough with that patch. WAR still has the edge.

[Hyrist]

I'm actually glad that they aren't as bad off as I perceived, I'm actually feeling slightly optimistic about playing them now.

Good to hear.

I haven't taken up paladin, as I prefer to specialize a set character to a set job scope. Lin is Dragoon, and I'm not sure if I'm taking other battle jobs up with her yet. I'll know more after 2.0. (I picture her a lot like a Valkyrie.)

But for Dragoon. Dragoon has a very powerful rotation if played right, especially on targets you do not have to constantly run from. That, and having a truck-load of attack from Power Surge can be downright dangerous for yourself if both yourself and your tank is not on top of hate control.

But I do have to say, it's performance is a bit more stat dependent. You've gotta have your gear in order to push the high overall numbers - though there's a debate on Piety vs Critical Attack Power is better for your body piece or not. (Meatdawg, do you have comparison parses on that, I'm not quite Lt. Rank yet so I can't test it.)

But seriously give it a push. After the buff, both of these jobs got an incredible boost and are worth exploring.

[TimonLoon]

Towards the MNK vs. DRG. DRG tends to do the same damage in ifrit (extreme) due to the fact that their aoe damage to the nails is far superior. However towards damage on ifrit itself, monk is higher. This is why their damage usually equal about the same. The damage drg makes on the nails balances out the dmg mnk does on ifrit. This is why imo having both in the fight made it a lot easier.

If you can show me a screenshot of Block proccing on a WS I will never bring that up again and you'll have proven me wrong. Please do this. Don't worry, I'll wait.

That doesn't change the point, just goes to show that to play PLD you need to invest a lot more than for WAR. Aka easier. You're investing just to keep up with the other guy even though you're both wearing AF. There is your problem. Not everyone is hardcore or lucky with gear drops.

I stand corrected on Spirits Within.

[Estellios]

Yes I have. And I'm saying it didn't go far enough with that patch. WAR still has the edge.

Maybe you're just better with WAR?

We've stopped using WAR and never looked back. PLD is too nice for our groups since we mostly have melee DD and never have any hate or damage issues. You don't need to be hardcore or lucky with gear drops either.

[Meatdawg]

But I do have to say, it's performance is a bit more stat dependent. You've gotta have your gear in order to push the high overall numbers - though there's a debate on Piety vs Critical Attack Power is better for your body piece or not. (Meatdawg, do you have comparison parses on that, I'm not quite Lt. Rank yet so I can't test it.)

Which ever drg wins the parse is the one that can keep PS3 up the longest. (didn't die or didn't lose buff) That by far is the biggest contribution to the dps numbers you see. If you take PS3 out of the equation and break it down on piety vs crit atk I think crit atk would win out but I do not have any kinds of data to back that up.

Mnk's defiantly have there place to shine too as is the case in AV and killing Miser. Even on Ifrit Ex they hold there own. Drg's just have better top end damage potential and handle each nail phase much more efficiently.

Remember that the skill of the player far outweighs any class/job choice. The most skilled players can make any job they play shine above all others. Sure some jobs are better suited for cretin fights due to the nature of the fight but to dismiss a job completely based on how a few people play it is just bad practice.

[TimonLoon]

Maybe you're just better with WAR?

We've stopped using WAR and never looked back. PLD is too nice for our groups since we mostly have melee DD and never have any hate or damage issues. You don't need to be hardcore or lucky with gear drops either.

Better with PLD but have easier time in PUGs with WAR. That's quite possibly my issue (PUGs).

But it doesn't change a lot of the things I've said in the thread.

[Hyrist]

Yeah I really need to get Archer up to Chamelion level. Every time I maintain PS3, I rip hate away from the tank, and the only way to stack - emnity is to take a hard blow to my stats.

So really my current focus is getting Archer up.

[TimonLoon]

Yeah I really need to get Archer up to Chamelion level. Every time I maintain PS3, I rip hate away from the tank, and the only way to stack - emnity is to take a hard blow to my stats.

So really my current focus is getting Archer up.

I don't know how you've been getting by. Whenever I'm going DRG I go right into my first combo (Vorpal-Impulse-Keen Flurry/Hawkeye+Chaos Thrust) and I'm already yellow/borderline red. If yellow I go and do the front combo then pop Chameleon and go back to first combo.

Also don't ever do -Enmity melds (it's a total waste) as melee. I don't play mages so I can't comment on how good it is there. ;x

[Estellios]

@Meatdawg have you guys managed to do 17 minute speed runs with melee DDs? I'm just curious since you guys are some of the better players on the server. My LS doesn't get to play too often and we are still on the Hamlet Defense phase, after deciding that running without anyone in 1st or 2nd is a waste of time. Very few of our members actually have BLM leveled up and it would be great to not need it since we're all pretty good players. I figure it would mostly revolve around using Invigorate early so when you get to "stopping points" where you gotta AOE your TP is ready. Bosses should be no issue with a group that knows what they are doing.

Also don't ever do -Enmity melds (it's a total waste) as melee. I don't play mages so I can't comment on how good it is there. ;x

It's more a matter of "there's really not much to be done with the waist slot" for mages. Militia belt never comes off my WHM, though.

[Dawiichan]

Which ever drg wins the parse is the one that can keep PS3 up the longest. (didn't die or didn't lose buff) That by far is the biggest contribution to the dps numbers you see. If you take PS3 out of the equation and break it down on piety vs crit atk I think crit atk would win out but I do not have any kinds of data to back that up.

Mnk's defiantly have there place to shine too as is the case in AV and killing Miser. Even on Ifrit Ex they hold there own. Drg's just have better top end damage potential and handle each nail phase much more efficiently.

Remember that the skill of the player far outweighs any class/job choice. The most skilled players can make any job they play shine above all others. Sure some jobs are better suited for cretin fights due to the nature of the fight but to dismiss a job completely based on how a few people play it is just bad practice.

When it comes to ifrit extreme, I'm going to have to stop you and say MNK can definitely reach higher damage to ifrit himself than a DRG. However it is true that DRG is far more superior against nails compared to MNK. Which is why if you pair a good MNK and a good DRG together, the parse usually tends to be around the same since the gain on one side and the loss of the other equals it out.