Samurai LB and frontlines

[Archeron]

Machinst can kill even with minimal battle high using Drill/LB combo, provided its against a non Melee job. MCH is not to be underestimated even if it isn't a meta role.

As far as the turret goes, which my mindest also applies to Sage due to its LB, I see more value in denying my enemy team damage, then putting out an AoE with minimal DPS that people will just walk around and ignore. The debuff it puts out on enemies even though it increases their damage taken, it really doesn't have any value and you don't need it to effectively nuke people. The other fun thing you can do with Machinist is coordinate with another Machinist, and instantly wipe out people from full health with 2x Marksmans Spite. That especially applies to Astrologians with BH V in DRK premades. Because if you can't stop them from mowing your team down, you can at least disrupt their gameplay and make them a bit salty in the process.

[Rinku421]

Remember when no one played SAM in PvP before the revamp? Good times.

[Divinemights]

First of all.
You can do things with every job. I have seen sage top scoring in kills.
But why playing sage when you can play... i dunno, Anything else? Healers have scholars with their oh so skilled *apply dot and top score damage with 0 kills* or *stack up 4 scholars and have a laugh*, WHM has miracle that even after nerfs has a great CC potential, also LB. Astro is one of DRK girlfriends for a reason. I play as one to heal and buff people but i am doing it wrong apperently.
Second. we discussed samurai and i think we agreed that its not 1 on 1 *oh no i am dead because i didnt react to his slef buff deployment* We are talking about me using macrocosmos on 50 people and then getin 100% to 0 oneshot out of nowhere. That is not fun.
And i think i used proper english to explain why drill + LB combo is not viable against premade. Apperently not. between me and their astro with BH 5 is DRK who pushes 1 button and i am dead. LB has a giant range. Drill does not. Attempting to drill + LB against a premade is a ticket to Stix river. I know turret has shield. BUt i would rather deny the node take for enemy or debuff the target we are trying to kill which is hard in this meta even 1 vs 5 against BH melee/tank. Noone uses turret as a shield in frontlines.
And no. There is nothing more in this game than pulling enemies. Premades do not care about objectives. Especialy on ice licker map. They will just come and kill 10-15 people every 30 sec or so and win. Other maps have potential and can be won if enemy has ONE premade (surprise! It can be more than one!) and focus on one poor team instead of tactical thinking. But in the end its pull-in followed by some bullshit like 5 macrocosmos or maybe guard removal.
Samurai LB in frontlines is a cheap BS skill. That and Ninjas should be reworked. But only after DRK meta removal.
P.S. How high is BH of a shooter against a target on that screenshot?

By all mean, I would be more happy with 5.1 version SAM, a generic limit break is far better than this gimmick Limit Break that all veterans knows how to avoid
You call 6.1 version SAM OP, but this is gimped version where their solo kill got stripped (Ninja too)
6.1 version SAM is a just a newbie killer or a counter to DRK Synergy when paired with a PLD (although people don't know how to utlize this)

[Lydia77]

snap

So detail quotes. I do NOT end up dead to DRK shit unless i space out or ping decides that my *guard* is not up. My point is - you cant combat LB with umplified tool without exposing yourself.
Also you can not 1 shot BH5 macrocosmos spaming premade astro with that combo reliably. Even if you manage to combo it you are not guaranteed to 1 shot someone (which is fair. Otherwise machinist would be a new meta. or maybe 4 ninjas chain LB?). And good luck geting BH4 vs premade !@#$%s. I will survive if i am focused. i WILL get my bh 4 or maybe 5. Problrm is: it will be all over by that time.
I do not run blindly throwing macrocosmos. As i said many times before: i play as intended role: a SUPPORT! I buff and heal my teammates. I even try to optimise my oh-so-usefull LB. But eventually i WILL use cosmos. And there is a good chance i will hit a samurai i didnt even know was there. And get 1 shot. SURPRISE! Astros cant shield. *deadge* What should i do then? leave my teammates to die? Remove one of not so many core skills from my hotbar? Accept my fate that if i use *insert skill name* i die?
PVP needs a complete rework.

[Sunhwapark]

Also you can not 1 shot BH5 macrocosmos spaming premade astro with that combo reliably.

Except you can ? Given the extremely higher of being hit by stray shots of damage/dots when engaging a fight, they aren't sitting at 100% health gracefully unless your alliance and the third alliance is afk accepting death. The only thing granting someone such immortality would be being pocketed by a PLD covering the AST specifically to pad Macrocosmos casts, similar to the PLD synergy with DNC players to cover them during their LB + Spin.

Otherwise machinist would be a new meta.

2x Machinists is something that already can be used against those players, so it wouldn't be new.

. SURPRISE! Astros cant shield. *deadge* What should i do then?

Ah, but they can.

The regular Aspected benefic grants a heal+regen effect, but when used as a Double Cast action, it instead gives you a heal+barrier.

And yeah, if you hit the Chiten barrier, you're at the samurai's mercy as to whether they have LB or not - this of course doesn't apply so heavily if the samurai in question is being dogpiled with damage in addition to unpurifiable CC from WHM,MNK,RPR etc.

The samurai's goal is to catch you out unaware, you get some options on how to approach them under the assumption that LB+Chiten is available:
1. Respect it and do nothing that could trigger the debuff.
2. Disrespect it and ignore it. (By use of Barriers)
3. Intentionally bait an LB use. (Only available to some classes)

While AST can't do the last option, it can still provide support while ignoring the samurai, the barrier can be used not only on themselves but can be given to others to potentially save them from a OHKO. I'd recommend tossing yourself 1 Double Cast shield if you were a bit wary about getting surprise clipped by a Chiten enjoyer, or more typically if you have already died once to that strategy in the current match.

While it's okay to want to be a full support, PvP has already shifted away from that style after Shb where healers were far more impactful in terms of support and enabling their team mates, and really drag out fights. Healers can only save their allies so much in terms of health, but of course Astro is really good at it due to the damage compiling functionality of Macrocosmos.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

I play mostly machinist and definitely use my turret for both damage and providing a sheild buff not jut for me but to any of my Co-tanks heading into the fray. You don't put it at your feet but where you intend to take the fight. That being said, I'm sure a samurai has purposely nicked themselves on one to kill a machinist, but I'd be more impressed than angry.

[IDontPetLalas]

I don't understand why you wouldn't (1) double benefic yourself if you're nervous about hitting a a SAM as an AST, admittedly not as easy to shield yourself as a SCH, but not hard, and want to hit macro when people are clumped up. You are supporting your team by hitting macro (at the optimal times) , it shouldn't be a case of "eventually" using it, it's one of your most important skills.

[Lydia77]

You guys are living in candyland.
Yes i forgot about the shield part (i play more than 4 jobs in pvp and when i heal as astro my job is to double spam heal to save someone's butt, as they cling to last 10% of their HP bar). I use heals for my teammates not to shield myself. I will use double heal to save my friend that to *overheal* myself in case there is a stray samurai is in the bunch.
But you can not play around samurai. In the current meta i play around DRK premade or no DRK premade. Period. If samurais were a meta - sure. we would adapt and play around it being 101% HP. But instead i see my party being pulled in and oneshot (or nearly 1 shot) byt the so skillfull premade. SO i use my so valuable followup heal to save those who i can before they get finished off. Why? dunno. After a couple of those combos, even on the third team which we cant control at all (do not tell me to ambush the premade while they are busy with other team. it works 1 time out of 50), i face up a BH5 party with triple the ammount of scores. So there are 2 coises: try to do stuff as a honorable jesture and loose anyway, only to be blamed to not overheal myself (yes i forgot about the shield) against a lonely samurai in 20 people mess, or go afk in the spawn like 4 or 5 of your teammates did from the get-go.
And today i tried samurai for the first time in a year+. melee atatcks are potent, shield pierce is nice, but they are all so SLOW. i cast the ability and enemy ninja with 5% HP sprints away while my teammates are picking their nose. And LB is a chep shot. I killed like 5 without trying too much simply by waiting for LB and pressing 2 buttons. They didnt even attack me. And they died 100 to 0 through BH4
P.S. i denied 2 ninja LBs BS today with a last second recuperate. Thats what EVERYONE can do.

[Mercury_Grey]

By all mean, I would be more happy with 5.1 version SAM, a generic limit break is far better than this gimmick Limit Break that all veterans knows how to avoid
You call 6.1 version SAM OP, but this is gimped version where their solo kill got stripped (Ninja too)
6.1 version SAM is a just a newbie killer or a counter to DRK Synergy when paired with a PLD (although people don't know how to utlize this)

You do realize every melee, range (both phy and magical) had dmg LB. Tanks had DEFENSIVE lbs. And healaers had shocking healing LBs. This new era of pvp gives those jobs LBs that FIT their theme

[Divinemights]

You do realize every melee, range (both phy and magical) had dmg LB. Tanks had DEFENSIVE lbs. And healaers had shocking healing LBs. This new era of pvp gives those jobs LBs that FIT their theme

I do know that but Zantetsuken is pretty much the Iai in Kendo but they choose the worst form to present it.
Iai is supposed to be single target only
You also need to realize I find 6.1 version Samurai is just a laughing stock with this gimmick Zantetsuken as it is very easy to avoid and Samurai's sustain damage is at wet noodle level.