Samurai LB and frontlines

[Valence]

just wanted to put this out there but it does not 1 shot a person with bh5 unless they have taken like 20% hp. iv lived many times with the debuff applied. I still don't like it tho and understand completely the hate it gets haha

It does exactly 100% of the target's HP in damage, which means that if you have some shields on top of it at the moment you get hit, you will survive it. It's an easy LB to bait with a lot of jobs that have on demand shields.

[Spiffer]

thats prob what it is, well ill retract my statement. i coulda sworn it didn't take into count bh but it says on skill 100% of targets hp if applied.

[Archeron]

Samurai LB is a cheap ass trick and it doesn't belong in PvP period. OHKO's are weak gameplay. I'd prefer if their LB just reflected incoming damage back at the people who casted it, and the LB meter recharged quicker.

[Mawlzy]

Samurai LB is a cheap ass trick and it doesn't belong in PvP period. OHKO's are weak gameplay. I'd prefer if their LB just reflected incoming damage back at the people who casted it, and the LB meter recharged quicker.

Ooh, I like that idea a lot. A far more interesting mechanic.

[Sinstrel]

thats prob what it is, well ill retract my statement. i coulda sworn it didn't take into count bh but it says on skill 100% of targets hp if applied.

Your BH also affects healing done which, ergo, increases your shielding done. There are very few jobs that don't have a shield and, of the jobs that do, there are fewer still that don't passively gain the shield as part of their standard rotation (as opposed to solely through limit break as in the case of DRG).

[Valence]

SGE in FLs can get incredible value if you're facing a premade or two. Completely nullifies DRK kitchen sinks if you plop it on your team... But it will only shield your team... Then you need to get the heck out.

[LeoBertolaso]

It doesn't sound like most of the first posters have given SAM a try, OP isn't saying "Yeah SAM is OP" OP is saying the kit is a meme. It does 100% of your HP as damage, can be (to an extent) cc'd, and is relatively strong to make up for the rest of the kit. If it does 100% of HP as damage, you only need some barrier (like MNK's 6k dash barrier) to survive. You have one thing to worry about fighting a sam, and thats the kuzushi proc. Outside of that, I ignore SAM trying to whack away at me and just walk away. If they fail to get a decent proc on anyone they're dead amongst a crowd.

What else is there to deter mindless AoE spam in a DRK + AoE meta, that most players have access to? SGE shields, MCH LB is a good one for targeting backline squishies, what else? MNK picks/LBing a barrier, WAR pulls, ninja mobility/shuriken/executes, and SAM LB, etc. etc. I'm glad it happens.
The last thing I need to see is another 8 man premade, 6 AST's with BH5 sitting in the back being able to get away with it. SAM LB is a decent deterrent in situations where those protected, high BH backliners can just sit pretty. SAM can be fun, give it a try.

[Lydia77]

It doesn't sound like most of the first posters have given SAM a try, OP isn't saying "Yeah SAM is OP" OP is saying the kit is a meme. It does 100% of your HP as damage, can be (to an extent) cc'd, and is relatively strong to make up for the rest of the kit. If it does 100% of HP as damage, you only need some barrier (like MNK's 6k dash barrier) to survive. You have one thing to worry about fighting a sam, and thats the kuzushi proc. Outside of that, I ignore SAM trying to whack away at me and just walk away. If they fail to get a decent proc on anyone they're dead amongst a crowd.

What else is there to deter mindless AoE spam in a DRK + AoE meta, that most players have access to? SGE shields, MCH LB is a good one for targeting backline squishies, what else? MNK picks/LBing a barrier, WAR pulls, ninja mobility/shuriken/executes, and SAM LB, etc. etc. I'm glad it happens.
The last thing I need to see is another 8 man premade, 6 AST's with BH5 sitting in the back being able to get away with it. SAM LB is a decent deterrent in situations where those protected, high BH backliners can just sit pretty. SAM can be fun, give it a try.

Machinist cant 1 shot (well combo shot) a full HP squish. And to even try the drill+LB combo you have to get close and be pulled by so skillfull DRK. Then you dead. Now add BH 4-5 all those astros will have. And we are talking LB vs short CD baseline abilities.
We are talking about full strat and coordination when DRK shields, pulls in, guards (if needed) and goes back. While his girlfriends have to press 1 or 2 buttons and half of your raid is gone.
As for samurai - its annoying to get 1 shot when you dont even know he is over there. 1V1 you can trick, bait away the deuff etc. In party attack you accidently sneeze in SAM general direction and die next moment. And you sre most likely not 100% HP anyway (thx scholars. we all love you) so these tiny 6k shields will not save you.

[Sunhwapark]

If RDM is so good why noone plays it in FL? Maybe because the moment you rush into an enemy with caster defence you will be a red GOO on the grass / snow?

If you're engaging on your own into a 1v24 then you cannot blame the class for your death.

What about bard? Sage?
Some jobs are dead in that mode and the fact thet they CAN preform good in the right hands and even top score when pigs fly it doesnt mean we should consider this ballanced

What about them? They can fight if you have some general pvp knowledge and understand how to use their kits, and having high damage is just a matter of constantly being in battle, it's why SCH is often top of the leaderboard, it can apply constant damage very easily without having to actively be contributing in combat for a long duration of time. Being high in damage doesn't guarantee victory, BRD and SGE have their own individual ways to contribute to securing kills/areas, of course this will not have the same large scale impact as a 30s vacuum paired with a LB in such context.

Why bother with red mage dancing around, planing 5 steps ahead, risking being literally 1 shot when you can play black mage who is squishy too but can do so much more damage. Heal? Even pure healers cant do such a diffirence.

A red mage doesn't have to do 5 step planning to play though, It is as simple as dashing in using the melee combo and doing a backflip to leave the fight, so I'm not sure what the argument is ?

Why play warrior to pull away 1 player when you can play DRK and pull 1-500000 of them and be literally unkillable. Even ignoring LB DRK got shields toping them on heal charts and dmage reductions.

Because there's more to the game than pulling players?
All PVP mode has objectives, securing those with your respective skills is the endgame goal, topping the damage chart does not entitle you to a free win.

i get 1 shot by sam no matter what,

We've already explained how to deal with those.

Expecting machinist to have one to prevent it..

Turret has a shield but of course it time to deploy and also activate its buff , but on another note if you're just mindlessly spamming AOEs and single target shotting a samurai without knowing if they've used Chiten, then you're pretty much giving them a free bank transfer of 10 BH points. BTW free tip: Samurais often will untarget everything once they use chiten and then press LB after a few seconds - anyone who taps them will get soft targeted by the samurai so it means they can pretty much guarantee a kill if a target gets selected for them, however you can bait it out as a MCH without getting instakilled, tossing out Wildfire will trigger the soft target mechanicfor them and they will more often than not just press LB right after and get no kill or mighty damage. This can also be done with certain targeted skills that deal no damage upon cast like RPR's Death Warrant and also MNK's Thunderclap.

Machinist cant 1 shot (well combo shot) a full HP squish.

ok

[Lydia77]

First of all.
You can do things with every job. I have seen sage top scoring in kills.
But why playing sage when you can play... i dunno, Anything else? Healers have scholars with their oh so skilled *apply dot and top score damage with 0 kills* or *stack up 4 scholars and have a laugh*, WHM has miracle that even after nerfs has a great CC potential, also LB. Astro is one of DRK girlfriends for a reason. I play as one to heal and buff people but i am doing it wrong apperently.
Second. we discussed samurai and i think we agreed that its not 1 on 1 *oh no i am dead because i didnt react to his slef buff deployment* We are talking about me using macrocosmos on 50 people and then getin 100% to 0 oneshot out of nowhere. That is not fun.
And i think i used proper english to explain why drill + LB combo is not viable against premade. Apperently not. between me and their astro with BH 5 is DRK who pushes 1 button and i am dead. LB has a giant range. Drill does not. Attempting to drill + LB against a premade is a ticket to Stix river. I know turret has shield. BUt i would rather deny the node take for enemy or debuff the target we are trying to kill which is hard in this meta even 1 vs 5 against BH melee/tank. Noone uses turret as a shield in frontlines.
And no. There is nothing more in this game than pulling enemies. Premades do not care about objectives. Especialy on ice licker map. They will just come and kill 10-15 people every 30 sec or so and win. Other maps have potential and can be won if enemy has ONE premade (surprise! It can be more than one!) and focus on one poor team instead of tactical thinking. But in the end its pull-in followed by some bullshit like 5 macrocosmos or maybe guard removal.
Samurai LB in frontlines is a cheap BS skill. That and Ninjas should be reworked. But only after DRK meta removal.
P.S. How high is BH of a shooter against a target on that screenshot?