Bring Back Gnash and more?! (Remove Dread winder Positions)

[Lyth]

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I did. There was a post like this already a few weeks ago players already argued against. OP is arguing for positionals to be removed as a substitute for NG removal. The end result of feedback like this is they'll just remove positionals as well.

It's really terrible watching the community deliberately chip away and destroy what was one of the best designed jobs on release.

[LisseyCrowe]

I did. There was a post like this already a few weeks ago players already argued against. OP is arguing for positionals to be removed as a substitute for NG removal. The end result of feedback like this is they'll just remove positionals as well.

It's really terrible watching the community deliberately chip away and destroy what was one of the best designed jobs on release.

Then say something along the lines of "Don't touch it anymore" instead of answering like OP's on a crusade against positionals.

Besides, it is to everyone's interest to keep the discussion alive so the Devs know people care, doubly so while the iron's hot. I sure don't want to be left with Viper in its current state.

EDIT : I'm saying this because if we assume Gnash was removed because no one realized that was an option so no one argued for "keeping it", then we need to be more vigilant about the message we're sending.

[Shurrikhan]

Then say something along the lines of "Don't touch it anymore" instead of answering like OP's on a crusade against positionals.

Frankly, given the impact that even a passing or conditional suggestion of reduced available optimization can have, it is generally proportionate to treat any comment suggesting that X is dispensable as some fragment of "a crusade" against it, since it will tend to have that exact impact, intentionally or not.

For instance, I might suggest that, since you cannot follow up Vicewinder with anything other than a Coil action without wasting those Coils, that Hunter's Coil replace Steel Fangs > Hunter's Sting > Flanksting Strike / Hindsting Strike and Swiftskin's Coil replace Reaving Fangs > Swiftskin's Sting > Flanksbane Strike / Hindsbane Fang until both are consumed.

I could make that suggestion because I don't see anything wrong with that and do see some potential benefits from that... but I do expect that those who can see the potential loss would speak up based on how at risk the thing I'm suggesting be deleted already is. That's not elitism or people being narrow-viewed so much as, yes, a contextually appropriate response.

If a seemingly low-stake suggestion appears to blow up in our face, it's because we didn't research the implications first and happened upon a landmine. As long as discussion doesn't devolve into ad hominem, though, that's okay; that's just letting others do the work of contextualizing our suggestions. They may get tired of having to do so, but we're in no position to get tired of those who have a much more real stake in the matter duly providing their opinions.

We've seen time and time again that, if anything, those who know less about a given job tend to have more impact on its design than those who actually play it. That those who are regularly disregarded despite being the few actually informed (and, more than likely, have steadily seen what they enjoy chipped away to make room for the vague potential that someone else might then dabble in their job) might seem a bit more intense, then... should be expected.