[7.0 Spoilers] Regarding the Milala

[jadeharley]

After the coronation, it is revealed Krile is from another shard, the Unlost World. In the Unlost World, it is heavily implied the Milala arrived upon that shard to escape the calamity of ice. We know from Emet-selch that experiencing a calamity results in one's soul being "rejoined" with their equivalent self, increasing their soul's density.

Based on this, the Milala would be 5-times rejoined before their travel to the Unlost World (6/14). It is likely that Krile inherited the unusually dense soul of a Milala upon birth on the Unlost world, giving her the same density (6/14).

We know that Krile's parents sent her to the source shortly after she was born, and that she experienced the 7th Umbral calamity, putting her at 7/14. However, the average denizen of the source would be 7-times rejoined, or 8/14. Special cases such as time travel (G'raha Tia) or merging under extreme conditions (WoL) have a density of 9/14.

Upon learning of this, Krile says:

I struggle to believe I am from another reflection. I wonder, does this mean my soul is thinner than a native of the Source?
Surely not. Y'shtola would have noticed. Gods, there's so much I don't understand, my head is ripe to burst...

Would Y'shtola have noticed this difference in density? If she has observed Krile and determined nothing is strange, how did her soul gain the extra density?


A few theories, assuming Krile is in fact 8/14
* Upon the 6th Umbral Calamity, her shard's soul was in a sort of limbo until she was transported to the source, when it was subsequently rejoined.
* Krile's past soul-self did the Ardbert thing with a denizen of the Unlost World
* Upon death, Krile's previous soul-self merged with her Unlost World self in that shard's aetherial sea.

[Carin-Eri]

Really hope they explain this in the 7.x patches. There was a LOT that went unexplained in 7.0 (Krile's story being the most annoying example) and the circumstances around Krile being left on the Source were hardly elaborate.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

And this assumes that soul density stays the same when in other aetherial seas AND that souls stick with races. I just assumed souls would be the density of whatever aetherial sea they came out of as that is the only way they'd be uniform. Since souls are eternal, if they stay their density based on when they were minted, the people on the source would have a variety of soul densities based on how long ago their soul was created.

[jadeharley]

I just assumed souls would be the density of whatever aetherial sea they came out of as that is the only way they'd be uniform. Since souls are eternal, if they stay their density based on when they were minted

I considered this, but in Shadowbringers, Y'shtola and G'raha mention that G'raha's soul density is higher from having experienced the 8th calamity, so it seems like living people actively experience rejoining during a calamity.

[LilimoLimomo]

Yeah, this whole thing feels weird to me, too.

Would Y'shtola have noticed this difference in density?

Absolutely. As you noted, Y'sthola can see that WoL and G'raha have more dense souls. A less dense soul might have spoken to some sort of health condition, etc, so Y'sthola would have said something. And perhaps even moreso, Y'shtola's hunger for inter-shard travel would have made a less dense soul too curious a topic to not delve into.

If she has observed Krile and determined nothing is strange, how did her soul gain the extra density?

A few theories, assuming Krile is in fact 8/14
* Upon the 6th Umbral Calamity, her shard's soul was in a sort of limbo until she was transported to the source, when it was subsequently rejoined.
* Krile's past soul-self did the Ardbert thing with a denizen of the Unlost World
* Upon death, Krile's previous soul-self merged with her Unlost World self in that shard's aetherial sea.

I have a variety of thoughts on this:

• I kind of doubt it's the 1st one, as you'd either need to invent some special reason why the soul was in limbo as opposed to simply being reborn or have it be a coincidence that the soul wasn't occupied at the time.
• The 2nd one seems unlikely because "uncovering the history of past bodies in a different shard" seems like a complex narrative for the writers to somehow fit into the story in a way that doesn't feel clunky.
• The 3rd one seems like the most plausible; compatible souls fusing in the aetherial sea just has a "yeah, that makes sense" ring to it.

That said...part of me doesn't think they're introducing this specific aspect of metaphysical lore for the sake of Krile or Dawntrail's story. One thing that the devs could possibly want to be a part of FF14's story is to have Azem's soul eventually reach 13/14 or perhaps even 14/14. But the writers are likely going to avoid further Rejoinings since the Ascians are gone, and we can't just do the Ardbert thing again because even doing it one more time could feel repetitive and risks taking the specialness out of what we did with Ardbert. And if all of that is the case, then they need to introduce another mechanic by which souls can rejoin.

So that's my thought. That however they explain the density of Krile's soul, that will be the method by which we rejoin our soul further in future expansions. And if that's the case, then the method would have to be something that could be done while a person is still alive.

Finally, there are plenty of plot holes in Dawntrail, so it could just be that this ends up being one of them. But since they explicitly pointed out that we can't currently explain it, I'm hoping that means they'll eventually make sense of it and not leave us hanging.

[jadeharley]

I agree #3 seems the most likely, by virtue of being similar to rejoinings. My understanding of a rejoining is
* Large amounts of aether flood the source via some catastrophe
* Everyone living gets merged with their equivalent soul on the rejoined shard
* Everyone dead also gets merged, as the aetherial seas of the source and shard get shoved together

I do think they'll probably avoid repeating the ardbert thing too much.

[LilimoLimomo]

And this assumes that soul density stays the same when in other aetherial seas AND that souls stick with races.

It doesn't necessarily assume that, because coincidences can occur. But yeah, there'd be a lesser probability of a soul ending up in the same race as what it left, in theory? Unless there's something else at play?

We do have some lore in the game about this. We know that the Dotharl seem to be regularly reborn not only as Aura, but as Dotharl, and given how small their numbers are it seems unlikely that that's a coincidence. So there may be something going on there with souls being attracted to certain types of bodies and perhaps even cultures?

And I'm unsure whether this is relevant or not, but it's probably worth noting that for the majority of FF14 WoL's, Ardbert is not the same race as their WoL, despite them sharing splinters of the same 14/14 soul. So that might in some way speak to ways in which souls don't stick with one race?

...though also notably, just about everyone else "sharing souls" from other shards seems to be not only the same race, but the same exact body and age. Rowena, Gerolt, trolley kid, Magnus, etc...

Anyway, food for thought!

[No_Nick_Needed]

If Krile has a denser soul than most Source people, it might explain why her echo is unusually strong and with some extras... Thanks to Venat, we know that the ancients could use the echo at will, so I think it'd make sense.
Then again, the WoL's echo didn't show any changes after merging with Ardbert, so it could just be individual differences, rather than something systematic like a denser soul.

[Carin-Eri]

That said...part of me doesn't think they're introducing this specific aspect of metaphysical lore for the sake of Krile or Dawntrail's story. One thing that the devs could possibly want to be a part of FF14's story is to have Azem's soul eventually reach 13/14 or perhaps even 14/14. But the writers are likely going to avoid further Rejoinings since the Ascians are gone, and we can't just do the Ardbert thing again because even doing it one more time could feel repetitive and risks taking the specialness out of what we did with Ardbert. And if all of that is the case, then they need to introduce another mechanic by which souls can rejoin.

That's an interesting point, and also raises the question of what might happen in similar circumstances if we were to encounter a situation in which we meet a shard counterpart who doesn't want to rejoin.
Though I digress - that's probably a topic for another thread.

[No_Nick_Needed]

Well... nothing much would happen, I imagine. We could only join with Ardbert, because he was already dead, but was kept from rejoining the life-stream of the First by Hydaelyn's direct intervention, allowing him to join with us later. With Hydaelyn gone, the chances of that happening again are pretty much zero.

What is a more interesting question to me is, what happens to those who traveled from one shard to another and died over there? Like the native Alexandrians, who came to the Source. Does their soul somehow go back to their own shard, since it still exists in some form or another, or does it stay in the Source?
And if it's the latter, what does that mean?
If one of the two dies, do their souls merge, or does the dead's soul wait for the living one to also die to rejoin, or is it just going to be reborn as a seperate being, until both parts of the soul end up being dead at the same time? Or does the lack of a proper rejoining mean, they'll never re-fuse and will stay seperate?