P4S cleared without healers

[Silver-Strider]

Nah. Not my job.

So it would be fair to just ignore your comment then, got it

[Mortex]

Upon further consideration.

This is just 'Healer Mains genuinely tweaking out when a challenge run they will never do, nor will ever become doable by the garden variety shitter, gets completed: The Thread'.

It’s week 2 and people do this without healers. Any decent group can do this piss easy when they have bis gear. “But pf won’t hur dur”, just the possibility of this being done week fukking 2 speaks volumes. I want to see people do this back in stormblood or shadowbringer but we couldn’t because healer were actually part of the trinity and not a bonus. The hardest part about this kind of run is the talk about the covers and mits in a spreadsheet and some testing for optimisation (something a decent number of statics do anyway)

[Videra]

It’s week 2 and people do this without healers. Any decent group can do this piss easy when they have bis gear. “But pf won’t hur dur”, just the possibility of this being done week fukking 2 speaks volumes. I want to see people do this back in stormblood or shadowbringer but we couldn’t because healer were actually part of the trinity and not a bonus. The hardest part about this kind of run is the talk about the covers and mits in a spreadsheet and some testing for optimisation (something a decent number of statics do anyway)

Okay. Go do it. Prove that any decent group can do that on a dime and get back to me. I'll give you a hint: That very same static in the video in OP has stated that it isn't worth it.

[Mortex]

Okay. Go do it. Prove that any decent group can do that on a dime and get back to me. I'll give you a hint: That very same static in the video in OP has stated that it isn't worth it.

I did ask my group if they want too do stuff like this but they said we just reclear the fight once weekly and saving 1 min isn’t worth it relearning for different people and also not having the gear for these jobs. If I find 7 other people that want to do this kind of stuff I will do it but finding people is the hardest part if the static doesn’t wanna do it.

[Mortex]

Also they don’t even have bis and almost skip cannons week 2. My static is decent close with bis week 4 and we skipped cannon. If these people get better gear and do this again they are close to skipping sword phase even.

[MAD_ARCHITECT]

Okay. Go do it. Prove that any decent group can do that on a dime and get back to me. I'll give you a hint: That very same static in the video in OP has stated that it isn't worth it.

This argument is missing the point. Even if your static consists of the best players in the game, it is impossible to clear the savage in current gear without tanks or without dps in the party because you will either rapidly collect deaths and damage downs from autos and tankbusters until you wipe, or you will hit enrage. As roles, tanks and dps are intrinsic and necessary components of the combat design and its win condition. They cannot be dispensed with using meme party comps until content is significantly out-geared. The same cannot be said of healers. Whether they bring any value at all is exclusively attached to how much security the other players want to have. Most players want that security, sure, but you can opt out of having healers in a way you cannot opt out of having tanks or dps because of how the game itself is designed. The game suggests and strongly encourages the healer role, certainly, but to say that the fight design requires them the same way it requires damage dealers and tanks is factually incorrect.

Premade groups dispensing with healers is already done regularly at the casual level in dungeon runs, but now the creep has reached the hardest content in the game and this is the problem. It doesn't matter how niche the case is. It is a design decision that prioritizes the enjoyment of bad players over good ones at a baseline, and is a tiny symptom of a major problem that has been present since the healers were overhauled to be functionally identical at the start of Shadowbringers.

[Carighan]

Okay. Go do it. Prove that any decent group can do that on a dime and get back to me. I'll give you a hint: That very same static in the video in OP has stated that it isn't worth it.

Missing the point.

Could you do this fight without any damage dealers? Or without any tanks?

The issue is not whether it's optimal to go with or without healers, but that out of the three roles, one is not required by the design of the raid fights in this game. The other two however are. For current-generation content!

[NobleWinter]

I think a huge problem with healers versus tanks is the caster versus melee design they made law for both roles. Tanks can do everything they need to with full mobility weaving things like provoke, shirk, and defensive cooldown, and healing between GCDs. Off-hand only Paladin's Passage of Arms and sometimes Clemency really requires any stationary positioning that I can think of. Compare that to healers who at a baseline have to stand still and cast to heal. Why isn't Cure, Physick, Benefic etc instant cast and MP free or even MP positive? Healers should be able to run away from danger and cast their most basic heal spell with ease. For some dumb reason Healers use the most MP while GCD healing. This entire system means that avoiding healer failure means reducing healing requirements because casual players can literally heal the party into failure with bad spell choice. Revive too many people and your MP is bottomed out. If FFXIV changed the healing dynamic to generate resources instead of drain them as you would expect from a healing class we could see much more outgoing damage. I would love to see a system where our DPS had hefty MP cost and it was offset by using healing spells to counter high outgoing damage. Unfortunately the devs seems very narrow minded about how "accessible" healing should be. They remove DPS spells which makes doing damage incredibly easy but healing can require using 3 or 4 actions in combination to complete heal checks. It boggles my mind that we haven't seen a serious simplification of the over abundant healing bloat on classes like Astro and Scholar. Instead we get more and more tools to shuffle between each expansion. It's like no one is giving the role any real consideration.