P4S cleared without healers

[Carighan]

In Honey B that enought to randomly kill people during her hearth phase and when she drop honey. She love to AA a lot during those and you would EASILY end up killing DPS while they did nothing wrong. You know during her hearth phase there a Meteor part right. Healer would need to premtively time their healing so they can heal in between the small frames where the meteor damage them and they could receive a stinger. You would then need to full heal said person cause there like 6 other meteor going down and you can't afford to not heal 5 of those, and even too you just healed the first dude, there a non 0 chance he just get targetted by 2 stingers while you deal with other meteor.

That's the thing, these raidwide effects would no longer hit for 80%+, but for 40%-50%. The idea is to make the infrequent raidwide attacks weaker, but instead add constant low~medium damage pressure onto non-tanks. Forcing in turn a constant healing output stream, which is more than even very heal-heavy DPS or Tanks can provide with their limited toolset.

That's how, well, everyone else gets it done. :P

[Ramiee]

Most of FFXIVs issues is it's a western style MMO going through a JP mindset. 20+ years of experimentation has gone around in western MMOs so now those Devs have a better idea of how to balance roles, WoW for example had very similar healer design to current XIV 15ish years ago however it was unengaging which led to healers quitting so they turned this around to having more damage dealing and now current healing is fun, still has balance issues but there's regular rebalancing.
GW2 also has real fun healers and balancing issues every once a while.

I've played a lot of eastern MMOs and they are not designed with this in mind, everything is role restricted, healers heal, tanks tank and DPS DPS. That is if you even have trinity roles, the JP and Korean game design mindset seems to think that you have to play your role and only your role. I'm pretty sure most JP players wouldn't mind if healers literally weren't allowed to deal damage in raids and only heal. Looking specifically at the FF forums at least, it's sad but early ff14 was not normal design wise for JP MMOs the game just became more and more like all other JP and Korean MMOs.

[IDontPetLalas]

Most of FFXIVs issues is it's a western style MMO going through a JP mindset. 20+ years of experimentation has gone around in western MMOs so now those Devs have a better idea of how to balance roles, WoW for example had very similar healer design to current XIV 15ish years ago however it was unengaging which led to healers quitting so they turned this around to having more damage dealing and now current healing is fun, still has balance issues but there's regular rebalancing.
GW2 also has real fun healers and balancing issues every once a while.

I've played a lot of eastern MMOs and they are not designed with this in mind, everything is role restricted, healers heal, tanks tank and DPS DPS. That is if you even have trinity roles, the JP and Korean game design mindset seems to think that you have to play your role and only your role. I'm pretty sure most JP players wouldn't mind if healers literally weren't allowed to deal damage in raids and only heal. Looking specifically at the FF forums at least, it's sad but early ff14 was not normal design wise for JP MMOs the game just became more and more like all other JP and Korean MMOs.

I've played a number of Korean MMOs and the "healers only heal" has definitely not been my experience. It could happen in the most difficult content that "heals only heal" and there was no other option to complete the content due to the healing requirements , however in content that was at other difficulty levels or that had multiple healers/supports, it wasn't uncommon to have specs so a healer or support could go as a hybrid or DPS spec. This was true over more than 15 years or so, at least with Korean games.

[Ramiee]

I wouldn't say "much closer"

If it's Phys range then yeah it's close lol.

[Derio]

If anything it just proves that job design needs an overhaul. Changing content means nothing if you have to design content around the current job design anyway.

[Carighan]

If anything it just proves that job design needs an overhaul. Changing content means nothing if you have to design content around the current job design anyway.

Kinda both?

I feel the bigger issue is the underlying content never wanting to healably damage the group except in very rare situations. Everything is meant to be avoided, and if it doesn't, will just kill you. And if it isn't avoidable, then it's a rare every-60s-or-so raidwide that you just heal with 1-2 oGCDs.

If we had a continuous barrage of low~medium random hits flying out into the group in most fights, random AoEs without pre-warning, etc, we'd have room for a far more creative job design where all the healing tools we already have - in particular the GCD heals - would actually have a reason to exist.

[Ramiee]

I've played a number of Korean MMOs and the "healers only heal" has definitely not been my experience. It could happen in the most difficult content that "heals only heal" and there was no other option to complete the content due to the healing requirements , however in content that was at other difficulty levels or that had multiple healers/supports, it wasn't uncommon to have specs so a healer or support could go as a hybrid or DPS spec. This was true over more than 15 years or so, at least with Korean games.

With Korean MMOs it's pretty rare for a game to be role based tbh, you normally get just a general support class. In the Korean MMOs I played with explicit trinity it has been pretty heal-bot designed but luckily most Korean MMOs aren't trinity so it's not as much of a problem. I think a general support DPS split is better for Asian MMOs over a trinity.

[Videra]

Upon further consideration.

This is just 'Healer Mains genuinely tweaking out when a challenge run they will never do, nor will ever become doable by the garden variety shitter, gets completed: The Thread'.

[MAD_ARCHITECT]

Upon further consideration.

This is just 'Healer Mains genuinely tweaking out when a challenge run they will never do, nor will ever become doable by the garden variety shitter, gets completed: The Thread'.

Please show us the Savage 4th boss no-tanks challenge run that succeeded two weeks after content release.

[Videra]

Please show us the Savage 4th boss no-tanks challenge run that succeeded two weeks after content release.

Nah. Not my job.