Add different type of monsters attacks

[Tunda]

Hello

While I was playing Monster hunter stories 2 I found a really good concept that makes things fun for me

Which is attack type
Strength / speed / technique

What if we had similar concept for tank mitigation

If wrong type of mitigation it will loose 50% of its effectiveness

As a risk and reward thing

What do you think?

[WhyAmIHere]

wouldnt work in modern XIV; would need to've been in from the start and not been a pain point (old slash/pierce/blunt resist down).

Additionally we already kind of have that in Dark Mind, Dark Missionary, and Heart of Light for DRK and GNB: only good for magic.

[Tunda]

wouldnt work in modern XIV; would need to've been in from the start and not been a pain point (old slash/pierce/blunt resist down).

Additionally we already kind of have that in Dark Mind, Dark Missionary, and Heart of Light for DRK and GNB: only good for magic.

It is kinda janky the current system

What I mean is like monsters auto attacks for example have 3 types.. currently we have one basic type auto attack

Tanks usually use 2 3 mitigation at once and I don't think this is a good way to approach tank gameplay

Dark Mind is good on paper but outside of that it feel janky and less important than others

Because there Is no use for monster attack types I can use TBN without giving another thought process

The reward is free Dark attack which is not that great imo
And that if it proc if not it will give nothing

That is the issue

[CKNovel]

So basically you're creating 3 buttons, maybe cutting 1 existing mitigation into 3 differents mitigations.
If the buster is a water attack you need to press your grass mitigation. If it's fire you need to press your water mitigation. If it's grass you need to press your fire mitigation.

Here's the problems:
-Button bloat, effectively creates 3 buttons to answer the same situation except you need to press the correctly colored one.
-Cutting prevemptive mitigation, currently tanks can take advantage of the long duration to predict a tank buster and prevemptively cast their mitigation earlier so it comes back earlier as well while also taking more hits.
-Creates a reactive gameplay instead of the planning gameplay we are used to, this would completely turns the mitigation design on its head.

In short, you'll trade a lot of skill expression related to mitigation for a reaction based gameplay where you just press the exact same buttons but with the correct color, similar to pokemon typing.

[Tunda]

So basically you're creating 3 buttons, maybe cutting 1 existing mitigation into 3 differents mitigations.
If the buster is a water attack you need to press your grass mitigation. If it's fire you need to press your water mitigation. If it's grass you need to press your fire mitigation.

Here's the problems:
-Button bloat, effectively creates 3 buttons to answer the same situation except you need to press the correctly colored one.
-Cutting prevemptive mitigation, currently tanks can take advantage of the long duration to predict a tank buster and prevemptively cast their mitigation earlier so it comes back earlier as well while also taking more hits.
-Creates a reactive gameplay instead of the planning gameplay we are used to, this would completely turns the mitigation design on its head.

In short, you'll trade a lot of skill expression related to mitigation for a reaction based gameplay where you just press the exact same buttons but with the correct color, similar to pokemon typing.

I don't see skill expression of pressing 2 or 3 buttons to mitigate 1 attack

It is just more button to press for no reason

[SquigglySquigs95]

No use trying to speak reason top this guy.
I've legit never seen a good post from this guy, period, and I'm fairly certain he has to be baiting with how often he comes here with genuinely awful ideas while ignoring other peoples refutations (similar to how he ignored you pointing out that tanks already have skill expression in the form of preemptive mitigation use).

[Connor]

I mean, intent of the OP aside there might still be something in there to be discussed. Even a dumpster fire might have something valuable inside if you look hard enough lol.

We already have physical and magical damage so maybe they could something more with that? At this point the distinction barely exists anymore outside of the few remaining type-specific defensive abilities like Dark Mind, Fey Illumination or Magick Barrier.

Then again, the fact they’ve all but moved away from that distinction means at this point maybe it would be better if they just removed the distinction entirely? Though, that’s not as fun I’d say

[dspguy]

We play a game where we cast fire-based spells on fire-based enemies for damage. I think we expect too much for anything else.

[Mikey_R]

I mean, intent of the OP aside there might still be something in there to be discussed. Even a dumpster fire might have something valuable inside if you look hard enough lol.

The problem with the OP is they see a system in another game, think, I like that, put in FFXIV, but never think about how that affects FFXIV. Just slap a random system in there and hope it fits.

We already have physical and magical damage so maybe they could something more with that? At this point the distinction barely exists anymore outside of the few remaining type-specific defensive abilities like Dark Mind, Fey Illumination or Magick Barrier.

But it didn't really work in the past. If we go back to HW, DRK was the magic tank and PLD was the physical tank. With the majority of damage, especially raidwides and tank busters, being magical, it skewed the preferred tank to DRK (even before you take into account DRK's higher DPS).

Now, bringing things back to more recent times, if we were to adopt this idea, there are 2 ways it could be done.

1. Split the tanks and have 2 physical tanks and 2 magic tanks. This would, in theory, mean one set of tanks is better than another in a given fight, however, we also know that fights are designed so that all tanks can clear all content. This by necessity means the physical tanks can mitigate damage in the magic heavy fights and vice versa. This creates a potential...problem. If the extra mitigation power doesn't prevent someone from using a resource, then that extra mitigation is functionally useless, if it does, that is when it will tip the scales in favour of the 'right tank pair'. Then it is a case of how much it benefits the party.

This also creates a problem in the fact you have Split the tanks into 2 preferred parties, one physical based, one magic based. of course, there might be fights where they mix up the damage more, so you are better off having one magic and one physical.

2. The other way is giving all tanks a mixed suite of physical and magical mitigation. Without then massively bloating the mitigation kit, you would necessarily have to split it and have a physical and magical variant for each. Take PLD for example, rather than the 5 personal mitigations they currently have (Rampart, Guardian, Bulwark, Holy Sheltron and Hallowed Ground), you would half it and make some magic and some physical. Here is Physical Guardian and here is Magical Guardian.

Going onto raidwides, you would need 2 for every job, one for physical one for magical.

Then we have the problem of shields. Using Guardian again, it gives PLD a 1000 potency shield. Shields are damage independent, so they absorb both types. This would mean tanks that had shields would get more mitigation power over all damage types.

As you can tell, more and more balancing issues come into play when you start to dig deeper. This is especially true when people want DRK and GNB raidwide mitigations to have a physical damage mitigation component (or just reduce all damage) and Dark Mind to also have something for Physical damage (just as Camouflage has something small for magical attacks). Also, bear in mind, this is for 2 damage types, I don't even want to think about the mess that would be OPs suggestion.

People might disagree with things I have said, or they don't care about any differences, which is fine. I am just illustrating things that need to be thought about when you want to design a mitigation kit for the tanks.

[Tunda]

I mean, intent of the OP aside there might still be something in there to be discussed. Even a dumpster fire might have something valuable inside if you look hard enough lol.

We already have physical and magical damage so maybe they could something more with that? At this point the distinction barely exists anymore outside of the few remaining type-specific defensive abilities like Dark Mind, Fey Illumination or Magick Barrier.

Then again, the fact they’ve all but moved away from that distinction means at this point maybe it would be better if they just removed the distinction entirely? Though, that’s not as fun I’d say

People can't understand that this form is all about discussion but it feels like some people in this community take things too personal.. I wish I can play FFXIV with community like Monster Hunter.. they are more open about discussions and feedback..

regarding the point of that' why developers get rid of this system yeah they get rid of a lot of systems that isn't bad for the game but developer choose to remove it like:
- Dark knight stormblood: yeah it was OP but what about the current warrior? i don't think there is a difference between then and now.
- Mana management: it is black mage and dark knight duty in this game to keep using the second most important recourse in RPG games which all jobs should have done it.

a lot of other systems developer choose to remove it to simplify game even more.. now we reach to the point where FFXIV jobs are in a such bad state.

We play a game where we cast fire-based spells on fire-based enemies for damage. I think we expect too much for anything else.

I understand your point but that isn't what I was talking about..

take it for example this:

as simple as auto attacks of mobs and monsters, there is no verity for it, playing as a tank I blindly use any mitigation I have after catching 2 groups of mobs, and still my HP almost full

you can simply have red Icon on monsters that means this monster type is Strength, as a tank how to mitigate their attacks? use speed type of mitigation

Speed > Strength
Strength > Technique
Technique > Speed

these type of systems will make players not blindly pressing 40% mitigation for next attack.