Battle High needs to change/be removed

[Divinemights]

You cannot 1v1 someone ( Don't say it shouldn't happen, because it does happen at times ) or 2v1 someone, and the otherwise can just recuperate and spring all the way home like nothing.
I honestly miss how old PvP was when we had our class abilities instead of these "eSports PROGAMER" layouts. I have adapted as always, but I don't have to like it.
And I sure as hell don't like Battle High, nor Recuperate.

Battle High only penalizes the players who refused to learn and accept the fact the Frontline is a Player vs Player mode; not Player vs Objective.
Objective is only an incentive to get Players to fight
If a player failed to understand that, s/he has no right to crying about unable to kill other BH players, especially post patch 4.1
Battle high is fine, this thread is just tear of players who focus on Objective over Player vs Player but refused to accept the fact of how wrong they are

[Talamh]

Battle High only penalizes the players who refused to learn and accept the fact the Frontline is a Player vs Player mode; not Player vs Objective.
Objective is only an incentive to get Players to fight
If a player failed to understand that, s/he has no right to crying about unable to kill other BH players, especially post patch 4.1
Battle high is fine, this thread is just tear of players who focus on Objective over Player vs Player but refused to accept the fact of how wrong they are

That's an excuse and not what Battle High does at all.
Battle High incentives murderballs because it's the only way to stop people from spamming recuperate forever.

What you say, "Player vs Objective" is a fundamentally flawed misunderstanding of PvP.
There's been modes like Capture the Flag since forever and ever, where two teams were pitied against another in order to acquire the objective at hand.
FFXIV's system most closely resembles that of Unreal Tournament's Domination system where you need to capture specific points and hold them in order to gain points while the other team tries to take them back.

If you want, as you say, an incentive for players vs players to duke it out entirely; Then Remove Objectives Entirely.
Otherwise I'd say you need an incentive just to fight others: An equally flawed viewpoint of PvP because people who enjoy PvP don't need any reason to start bashing on each other.

[Zakuyia]

Man BH is cool I gotten to max before and won about 100+ fl in first place. Trying to get that 200 wins in first place. You just gotta be smart. When u see big boi BH take them down with cc and focus them. Its hard sure but its rewarding when u delete them. Stop playing passively and plan out ur moves. Asking for BH to be removed is a skill issue at most and your playing bad in pvp at worse. Be smart and pick ur enemies to kill in pvp. Treat pvp as a game of chess or checkers and plan each attack accordingly.

[Divinemights]

That's an excuse and not what Battle High does at all.
Battle High incentives murderballs because it's the only way to stop people from spamming recuperate forever.

I think you got everything backward
When I said "an incentive", i refers to casual
Veterans do not need a reason to fight and they are very unlikely would complain about Battle High
Also, casuals just blame on BH as a scapegoat because they refuse to learn

Casuals clearly forgot that they are playing on a platform where SE on purposely strain veterans by giving casuals free access to Battle High
You do realize the idea of gain battle high from assist is a joke?
It is also what shorten the gap between casuals and veterans.

[Mistress_Irika]

That's an excuse and not what Battle High does at all.
Battle High incentives murderballs because it's the only way to stop people from spamming recuperate forever.

What you say, "Player vs Objective" is a fundamentally flawed misunderstanding of PvP.
There's been modes like Capture the Flag since forever and ever, where two teams were pitied against another in order to acquire the objective at hand.
FFXIV's system most closely resembles that of Unreal Tournament's Domination system where you need to capture specific points and hold them in order to gain points while the other team tries to take them back.

If you want, as you say, an incentive for players vs players to duke it out entirely; Then Remove Objectives Entirely.
Otherwise I'd say you need an incentive just to fight others: An equally flawed viewpoint of PvP because people who enjoy PvP don't need any reason to start bashing on each other.

We had a pure pvp mode. It was called the Feast, and that got replaced entirely by Crystal Conflict.
Recuperate and battle high is a problem in itself. However, there are bigger problems than just those 2 that you've mentioned.
Recuperate is the way it is, because the devs wanted healing to be in the hands of the players and not so much the healing classes. The true problem is all of this being specifically being balanced around crystal conflict only. In fact, this is the main source of all of your frontline problems here.
As for battle high as far as I'm concerned there are too many changes that was made over the years that now makes battle high seem busted. The pvp calamity was one of them. Flipping the difficulty of team offense and defense without considering how that will affect frontlines and then increasing starting damage reduction to compensate for the changes that was made because everyone was instant dying...there's a problem if range classes needs damage reduction in order to play. They shouldn't need any at all...well, maybe dancer...nah. Frontlines feels like a moba mode since you have tanks and melees playing like they're bruisers. I haven't even included the AST LB being stacked on top of a BH5 frontliner...everything needs to be worked from the ground up before we considered doing anything to BH, because it's all just power creep to me last expansion. Lower DR for frontliners, get rid of all DR for all range classes, and nerf base damage overall, especially the AOE ones. Start there, and then work from there.

[Talamh]

Man BH is cool I gotten to max before and won about 100+ fl in first place. Trying to get that 200 wins in first place. You just gotta be smart. When u see big boi BH take them down with cc and focus them. Its hard sure but its rewarding when u delete them. Stop playing passively and plan out ur moves. Asking for BH to be removed is a skill issue at most and your playing bad in pvp at worse. Be smart and pick ur enemies to kill in pvp. Treat pvp as a game of chess or checkers and plan each attack accordingly.

If I want 100 BH, I'll just play SMN and never die.
PvP isn't a chess game, and chess has always been a terrible analogy.

I think you got everything backward
When I said "an incentive", i refers to casual
Veterans do not need a reason to fight and they are very unlikely would complain about Battle High
Also, casuals just blame on BH as a scapegoat because they refuse to learn

Casuals clearly forgot that they are playing on a platform where SE on purposely strain veterans by giving casuals free access to Battle High
You do realize the idea of gain battle high from assist is a joke?
It is also what shorten the gap between casuals and veterans.

Never seen a bigger attempt at trying to backtrack while at the same time trying to jab back.
I've said mine already and stand by it.

You trying to spin it into a "Veterans vs Casuals" now is just, hilarious ^^

I shall merely just say that we don't see eye to eye and that's that.

[Rinku421]

Remove Battle High.
Remove Recuperate.

There's no reason why every class should have the survivability of a tank through copious amount of sprinting and recuperating.
Elixir is one thing, but the others need to go.

I think this is also coupled with the fact that in FLs tanks/melee have a 60% damage reduction which allows them to survive situations they normally wouldn't.

I understand it was implemented to fix the “Mass SMN LB Abuse” but now we have “Mass DRK/DRG LB Abuse”. One problem “fixed” just lead to another issue.

I don’t agree with removing battle high because I believe it provides incentive to PvP instead of just capping objectives all game. But I do agree that recuperate and guard are some of the worst features they added to PvP.

[Kuroka]

I think this is also coupled with the fact that in FLs tanks/melee have a 60% damage reduction which allows them to survive situations they normally wouldn't.

I understand it was implemented to fix the “Mass SMN LB Abuse” but now we have “Mass DRK/DRG LB Abuse”. One problem “fixed” just lead to another issue.

I don’t agree with removing battle high because I believe it provides incentive to PvP instead of just capping objectives all game. But I do agree that recuperate and guard are some of the worst features they added to PvP.

Yeah its really fun, arent we casters doing less damage on objects as well?

Just sucks lol


Today ive run into one of those premade groups, you could tell from the few DK running with the same healers and dps all the time, always ast/sage with dragoon and whatever, all on maxed out battle high just from feeding on the other team... think of the mechanic what you want, but its just unfair the other two can feed each other battle high without any way for us to prevent it, unless we literally run into death traps...

[Lindwyrm]

I started playing the game in 2018. My first impression of PVP was 'wow this is actually a lot better than I thought. But I feel like it would be much better without Battle High.' Around there I looked up if anyone had the same thought, and found multiple posts dating back to like, 2015 or something lmao.

I don't think outright removing it would work well. I understand why it's there. But I can't help but feel that the best option would be to halve the stat gain, remove the healing aspect, or both. You all know it. The good players become absolutely unkillable, but worse than that, I feel like it rewards too-safe play. I enjoy being a sort of support tank/bruiser, dashing in to distract ~5 people for far longer than I should, and yeah, trying to get out, but if I die, no big deal. In almost all team-based strategy games that's a very useful strategy and role, but giving 4 points to multiple people, and myself not only limiting my damage but also my healing... It's just not worth it. I can't deny that the ideal is to just toss out ranged attacks, only take the safest possible fights, eat every retreat on the cheek until half my entire alliance has BH5 and we steamroll everyone, because a player with BH5 is damn near unkillable and leads to more battle highs for everyone around them too.

It very simply overly incentivizes ultra-safe play, and makes anyone who doesn't play like that not only worthless but outright detrimental to their team. You can argue there are proper ways to play around it, and you're right, but I think it is very, very plainly bad for the way the game plays.

[Valence]

I don't like how they buffed its generation recently with the reintroduction of Secure and the changes to assists/kills (even if I do think kills shouldn't reward more because there is little skill but luck there as well as the job being played). You don't have to even work for it anymore. Everybody is at BH2-3 already half the time if not more. The reward is just not there for me anymore.