Battle High needs to change/be removed

[Mawlzy]

Sure and how do i get the other 23 of my and the 24 of the third alliance to follow that advice?

Just this days we had several matches that worked well, we literally shredded any enemy, but then lost because the third team feeded the 2nd until they had like 15+ ppl with battle high... unless we abandon every objective and always run towards em, we cant stop em from that...

Its a broken mechanic bond to create imbalance.

Sssshhh... the premades like it. The four of 'em dash in, dash out, and let the NPCs deal with the repercussions.

[Mawlzy]

If Battle High remains, I would make two changes to it.

1. Remove the healing potency increase from all ranks of Battle High.

2. Reduce the damage dealt increase from 10% per rank to 5% for a total increase of 25% at BH5.

Players would continue to feel rewarded for playing well, but the gap between BH0 and BH5 becomes less extreme.

Modifiers for damage dealt and damage taken may also require adjustment in accordance with these suggestions.

That might work. Though I doubt it'd be an issue as is were it not for the way it acts as a force multiplier for meta stacks.

[Genz]

lol no

We could argue, at best, that Battle high is superfluous, because the players who regularly get BH5 are already 10+ times more powerful that the "average" player.
So even if it was removed, it wouldn't change much.

("average player" in the case of frontline doesn't mean much, since the level is abyssal because of many other reasons - reward too easy to get, lack of tutorial, etc.)

Battle high is for everyone who actually try, and a small hint for new players that they're getting better. The actual problem is there are currently far too many people who shouldn't queue for PvP.
It's also a useful information for the opponent, showing who is dangerous and who is the easy target.

and about this weird suggestion about increasing damage taken ... punishing players for playing well? what's this? FFXIV 1.0 ?

[Talamh]

I want to give my two gil to this.

Remove Battle High.
Remove Recuperate.

There's no reason why every class should have the survivability of a tank through copious amount of sprinting and recuperating.
Elixir is one thing, but the others need to go. They don't make PvP more competitive, they make it tedious as hell.

You cannot 1v1 someone ( Don't say it shouldn't happen, because it does happen at times ) or 2v1 someone, and the otherwise can just recuperate and spring all the way home like nothing.
I honestly miss how old PvP was when we had our class abilities instead of these "eSports PROGAMER" layouts. I have adapted as always, but I don't have to like it.
And I sure as hell don't like Battle High, nor Recuperate.

[Divinemights]

You cannot 1v1 someone ( Don't say it shouldn't happen, because it does happen at times ) or 2v1 someone, and the otherwise can just recuperate and spring all the way home like nothing.
I honestly miss how old PvP was when we had our class abilities instead of these "eSports PROGAMER" layouts. I have adapted as always, but I don't have to like it.
And I sure as hell don't like Battle High, nor Recuperate.

Battle High only penalizes the players who refused to learn and accept the fact the Frontline is a Player vs Player mode; not Player vs Objective.
Objective is only an incentive to get Players to fight
If a player failed to understand that, s/he has no right to crying about unable to kill other BH players, especially post patch 4.1
Battle high is fine, this thread is just tear of players who focus on Objective over Player vs Player but refused to accept the fact of how wrong they are

[Talamh]

Battle High only penalizes the players who refused to learn and accept the fact the Frontline is a Player vs Player mode; not Player vs Objective.
Objective is only an incentive to get Players to fight
If a player failed to understand that, s/he has no right to crying about unable to kill other BH players, especially post patch 4.1
Battle high is fine, this thread is just tear of players who focus on Objective over Player vs Player but refused to accept the fact of how wrong they are

That's an excuse and not what Battle High does at all.
Battle High incentives murderballs because it's the only way to stop people from spamming recuperate forever.

What you say, "Player vs Objective" is a fundamentally flawed misunderstanding of PvP.
There's been modes like Capture the Flag since forever and ever, where two teams were pitied against another in order to acquire the objective at hand.
FFXIV's system most closely resembles that of Unreal Tournament's Domination system where you need to capture specific points and hold them in order to gain points while the other team tries to take them back.

If you want, as you say, an incentive for players vs players to duke it out entirely; Then Remove Objectives Entirely.
Otherwise I'd say you need an incentive just to fight others: An equally flawed viewpoint of PvP because people who enjoy PvP don't need any reason to start bashing on each other.

[Divinemights]

That's an excuse and not what Battle High does at all.
Battle High incentives murderballs because it's the only way to stop people from spamming recuperate forever.

I think you got everything backward
When I said "an incentive", i refers to casual
Veterans do not need a reason to fight and they are very unlikely would complain about Battle High
Also, casuals just blame on BH as a scapegoat because they refuse to learn

Casuals clearly forgot that they are playing on a platform where SE on purposely strain veterans by giving casuals free access to Battle High
You do realize the idea of gain battle high from assist is a joke?
It is also what shorten the gap between casuals and veterans.

[Mistress_Irika]

That's an excuse and not what Battle High does at all.
Battle High incentives murderballs because it's the only way to stop people from spamming recuperate forever.

What you say, "Player vs Objective" is a fundamentally flawed misunderstanding of PvP.
There's been modes like Capture the Flag since forever and ever, where two teams were pitied against another in order to acquire the objective at hand.
FFXIV's system most closely resembles that of Unreal Tournament's Domination system where you need to capture specific points and hold them in order to gain points while the other team tries to take them back.

If you want, as you say, an incentive for players vs players to duke it out entirely; Then Remove Objectives Entirely.
Otherwise I'd say you need an incentive just to fight others: An equally flawed viewpoint of PvP because people who enjoy PvP don't need any reason to start bashing on each other.

We had a pure pvp mode. It was called the Feast, and that got replaced entirely by Crystal Conflict.
Recuperate and battle high is a problem in itself. However, there are bigger problems than just those 2 that you've mentioned.
Recuperate is the way it is, because the devs wanted healing to be in the hands of the players and not so much the healing classes. The true problem is all of this being specifically being balanced around crystal conflict only. In fact, this is the main source of all of your frontline problems here.
As for battle high as far as I'm concerned there are too many changes that was made over the years that now makes battle high seem busted. The pvp calamity was one of them. Flipping the difficulty of team offense and defense without considering how that will affect frontlines and then increasing starting damage reduction to compensate for the changes that was made because everyone was instant dying...there's a problem if range classes needs damage reduction in order to play. They shouldn't need any at all...well, maybe dancer...nah. Frontlines feels like a moba mode since you have tanks and melees playing like they're bruisers. I haven't even included the AST LB being stacked on top of a BH5 frontliner...everything needs to be worked from the ground up before we considered doing anything to BH, because it's all just power creep to me last expansion. Lower DR for frontliners, get rid of all DR for all range classes, and nerf base damage overall, especially the AOE ones. Start there, and then work from there.

[Lindwyrm]

I started playing the game in 2018. My first impression of PVP was 'wow this is actually a lot better than I thought. But I feel like it would be much better without Battle High.' Around there I looked up if anyone had the same thought, and found multiple posts dating back to like, 2015 or something lmao.

I don't think outright removing it would work well. I understand why it's there. But I can't help but feel that the best option would be to halve the stat gain, remove the healing aspect, or both. You all know it. The good players become absolutely unkillable, but worse than that, I feel like it rewards too-safe play. I enjoy being a sort of support tank/bruiser, dashing in to distract ~5 people for far longer than I should, and yeah, trying to get out, but if I die, no big deal. In almost all team-based strategy games that's a very useful strategy and role, but giving 4 points to multiple people, and myself not only limiting my damage but also my healing... It's just not worth it. I can't deny that the ideal is to just toss out ranged attacks, only take the safest possible fights, eat every retreat on the cheek until half my entire alliance has BH5 and we steamroll everyone, because a player with BH5 is damn near unkillable and leads to more battle highs for everyone around them too.

It very simply overly incentivizes ultra-safe play, and makes anyone who doesn't play like that not only worthless but outright detrimental to their team. You can argue there are proper ways to play around it, and you're right, but I think it is very, very plainly bad for the way the game plays.

[Miki_L]

Recuperate should not be affected by healing potency increases specifically. Keep the healing bonus for jobs that want to actually use heal/shields.