We cannot achieve balance while DPS jobs have utilities

[Tunda]

snip.

How do you know RPR/MNK are balance?

Do you really think rDPS is enough to judge?

these 2 jobs provide more than DPS
they provide Raid Wide Healing and Regen and this isn't calculated in rDPS,

also RPR party regen is almost as strong as shake it off from warrior

you cannot judge these jobs are balance when you only value rDPS for jobs that do more than just DPS.

VPR isn't overtuned it is perfect maybe nerf 1% to 2% maximum but still balance..
BLM isn't, PCT isn't in reversive way.

PCT have 400 potency party wide healing and this isn't calculated in rDPS because it is utility skill.. how do you calculate this? rDPS isn't a judge nor aDPS

Adding support role will not make balance but will jobs makes sense..
Summoner having 5 healing and shielding skills isn't realistic for DPS job
RDM have literally Healing GCD in their kit says something no?
BRD, DNC having 30% to 50% of their kit as utility isn't really a support jobs?
MNK/RPR have fewer utility skills but it is very impactful in in fights

BLM/VPR/SAM is the only true DPS jobs in this game

we are not asking for something isn't logical here weather you remove utility or make it some person job to do it.

[Shurrikhan]

How do you know RPR/MNK are balance?

I didn't say they are. I said they have been, as contrary to your claim that it is impossible to balance DPS so long as any have a raidbuff.

Do you really think rDPS is enough to judge?

I already explained in detail why it isn't.

VPR isn't overtuned it is perfect

It outperforms all other DPS classes, including all "selfish" DPS classes, even including those in direct competition (e.g., SAM) and those under tighter role competition constraints (e.g., BLM). Remember, SAM and BLM offer nothing else, and BLM comes at greater opportunity cost to bring.

By a wholly classic definition of "overtuned", Viper is objectively overtuned.

As for making mountains out of molehill utility...

Monk's single heal per 90 seconds does not sufficiently compensate for Viper's 5.6% output lead over it (at 95th percentile) in rDPS+aDPS. Why? Because if even if the damage it heals were to provide an added healer offensive uptime, consider how many Fall Malefics, for instance, it would take to generate 5.6% of Monk's damage.

Should the heal have a cost to maximum DPS if given for "free" (no Chakra cost, etc., for use)? Of course. But that cost to maximum on-paper striking dummy damage should be in keeping with the extra damage that can be provided to the raid through that heal.

And since there is not a single mechanic that requires Reply of Earth to survive, on average that's simply --at best-- another healer filler attack GCD. Here, the 5.6% damage increase more than arguably keeps the party far safer than the heal does during prog, and then is hugely preferable thereafter.

BLM/VPR/SAM is the only true DPS jobs in this game

You realize the only "support" utility DRG, NIN, etc., provide... is damage, right?

we are not asking for something isn't logical here weather you remove utility or make it some person job to do it.

I don't know what this is meant to mean.